Time for a call-up from the Wranglers!

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by rhino

University players don’t re enter the draft, the sign or become free agents

Ah, an even easier decision for him then. The goal is to make the NHL, with whoever you can. So yeah, makes sense to test free agency rather than go toil away in the minors with an extremely impatient management team that allows zero room for error.

[Kasi]

Yeah the Fox way. I don’t think the Flames have drafted poorly in the first round lately by AHL or minor league results but for some reason they’re not giving them a chance.

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Sutter isn't the GM. If a player gets called up and doesn't get a shot, that's Sutter. Not getting called up is Tre. Now, Sutter and Tre have a good relationship, but if Tre wanted to do a power move, he could send down Rooney and bring up Phillips and Pelletier, and the ball would be thrown in Sutter's court.

Tre has brought in questionable vets his whole tenure, it's the most frustrating part of his team building.

He brought in Milano as a try out. He had these players up in the preseason. Iirc Sutter had the lines pretty much made up and never gave them a fair shot with top 6-9 players. No surprise when players like Phillips and Milano “failed”.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Kasi

He brought in Milano as a try out. He had these players up in the preseason. Iirc Sutter had the lines pretty much made up and never gave them a fair shot with top 6-9 players. No surprise when players like Phillips and Milano “failed”.

This is pretty much the truth of it. It’s really just the loyalty to the 4th line guys that kills me. He believes being “heavy” will matter at the end of the day…but there’s “functional heavy” and then what Lucic etc. bring…which is just that they’re big - and that size can’t overcome the reality that they’re bad.

Good heavy = an asset
Bad heavy = a liability

I’m hopeful that over time the right players will get rewarded, but the first 20 games seem to fly in the face of that.

[Naitix]

Some of you gotta stop bringing up Milano as a comparable player who was not given a chance. He was given time in the top 9 in the pre-season, and he was trash and looked out of shape. I do not care how many points he has, just take a look at the highlights - he is just carried by his linemates. He would not have worked here

Milano is the type of player who benefits from playing with talented players who drive the play, we have plenty of those. We are lacking players who are able to drive the play

[soulchoice]

I just hope Coronato does not have Adam Fox on speed dial, especially being Harvard Alumni. A lot of the Div 1 guys practice and stick together, even if they didn’t play in the same year.

[Mindtravellee]

Trelivinf is just trying to save cap space. He'll bring him up tomorrow!

Won't he? He will yeah?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Ol Scorp getting the credit in this tweet of dooooooom

https://twitter.com/user/status/1597328093714477059

…I mean, that ain’t great. Certainly not establishing a reputation for “letting the kids play”.

It's just silly.

I give him credit for getting some traction with the Flames not playing well, but no 1st 2nd or 3rd in in 2018, no 2nd in 2019. That's the story.

The 1st round picks from 2019, 2020 and 2021 are all well on their way.

The issue is moving picks to support a roster that wasn't ready to win, not drafting and developing.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's just silly.

I give him credit for getting some traction with the Flames not playing well, but no 1st 2nd or 3rd in in 2018, no 2nd in 2019. That's the story.

The 1st round picks from 2019, 2020 and 2021 are all well on their way.

The issue is moving picks to support a roster that wasn't ready to win, not drafting and developing.

You're kind of missing the point, this isn't about drafting and developing, it's about opportunity. 31 other teams have found an opportunity to try players in their lineup from the last four drafts.

The Flames have not.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You're kind of missing the point, this isn't about drafting and developing, it's about opportunity. 31 other teams have found an opportunity to try players in their lineup from the last four drafts.

The Flames have not.

No I'm not

If team X drafts say 5 times in the top two rounds of the 2018 and 2019 drafts (the most likely drafts to put players in the NHL in this timeline), and team Y drafts once in the two rounds in those two drafts it isn't necessarily a lack of opportunity ... it's likely at least partially due to a lack of talent and a lack of bullets in the chamber.

It's simply math ... 2 1st and 3 2nds vs 1 1st has more players likely to progress to the NHL.

[TheScorpion]

And when you're constantly moving out draft picks to acquire marginal players instead of promoting the ones you have ... that's a problem, too.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

And when you're constantly moving out draft picks to acquire marginal players instead of promoting the ones you have ... that's a problem, too.

I think the picks exiting has been a huge problem.

Not sure they've overlooked any real diamonds in the rough in recent years though have they? Or am I forgetting someone that they didn't promote who's gone on to prove them wrong?

Gawdin hasn't
Wotherspoon
Klimchuk

Valimaki is a mistake, but he was given an opportunity here and just couldn't seize it. Sent down and didn't rise up the AHL roster. He had his looks.

[TheScorpion]

No, they haven't really — it boils down to a) lack of picks and b) poor selections. I do think overlooking Phillips is a risky choice for them but otherwise, it's really just Juuso.

Giving up five picks last year for Pitlick, Jarnkrok, and Carpenter instead of first seeing what they had in the pipeline stings a little now, though. Three selections in 2022 ... that could hurt down the line.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

No, they haven't really — it boils down to a) lack of picks and b) poor selections. I do think overlooking Phillips is a risky choice for them but otherwise, it's really just Juuso.

Giving up five picks last year for Pitlick, Jarnkrok, and Carpenter instead of first seeing what they had in the pipeline stings a little now, though. Three selections in 2022 ... that could hurt down the line.

But were you upset the day they picked up Jarnkrok? I know I wasn't ... 1st place team and playing very very well. They even won a round which is rarified air in these parts.

[TheScorpion]

I wasn't upset either. But I had been saying for weeks beforehand that they should see what they had before they made another move. You could make a strong case that Ruzicka was a better 3C for the Flames last year than Jarnkrok ever was ... and they had plenty of homegrown talent on the farm.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But were you upset the day they picked up Jarnkrok? I know I wasn't ... 1st place team and playing very very well. They even won a round which is rarified air in these parts.

Yeah, criticizing moves like that in hindsight is pretty weak. The Flames were in a legitimate position to take a deep run last year, and Jarnkrok looked like a good add. It didn't work out. But it was still a good decision at the time.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I wasn't upset either. But I had been saying for weeks beforehand that they should see what they had before they made another move. You could make a strong case that Ruzicka was a better 3C for the Flames last year than Jarnkrok ever was ... and they had plenty of homegrown talent on the farm.

Ruzicka showed nothing to suggest he was ready to be their #3 C last year. In fact, he still hasn't - he is succeeding on the wing this year.

And Zary certainly wasn't ready last year.

They needed a C and they went out and got one

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Ruzicka showed nothing to suggest he was ready to be their #3 C last year. In fact, he still hasn't - he is succeeding on the wing this year.

And Zary certainly wasn't ready last year.

They needed a C and they went out and got one

Sorta ... they went out and they got a winger and then they played him at centre. Jarnkrok hadn't regularly played down the middle since 2018ish.

I'm not trying to relitigate the Jarnkrok trade, it looked fine at the time in isolation — it's just part of a larger trend of the Flames giving up a lot of draft capital for mid-rotation forwards.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Sorta ... they went out and they got a winger and then they played him at centre. Jarnkrok hadn't regularly played down the middle since 2018ish.

I'm not trying to relitigate the Jarnkrok trade, it looked fine at the time in isolation — it's just part of a larger trend of the Flames giving up a lot of draft capital for mid-rotation forwards.

Yeah, and I don't disagree with that. Though, mid-rotation guys are what you're going to get at the deadline. For me, the problem is that the Flames buy at the deadline too often, they need to be a little more discriminating. I was fine with it last year, but it shouldn't be done every year (unless you're on a Tampa-like run)

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Sorta ... they went out and they got a winger and then they played him at centre. Jarnkrok hadn't regularly played down the middle since 2018ish.

I'm not trying to relitigate the Jarnkrok trade, it looked fine at the time in isolation — it's just part of a larger trend of the Flames giving up a lot of draft capital for mid-rotation forwards.

No but you're defusing your own point.

It's not a lack of opportunity because you agree

1) they traded away too many picks
2) nobody that wasn't given an opportunity has really gone on to do anything

So it's down to trading picks and whether or not that was a good idea. Last year they were in a position where if they didn't add you'd be choked as they had a legitimate chance to win and added what should have been a solid veteran forward that could play the wing or the middle.