[News] Flames presser 12pm MT. Re: Hockey Operations personnel

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

The unspoken element is that Maloney was very teary when Treliving left and was very good friends with Tre, so to think the report on Sutter was unbiased is a bit naive.

Likewise, given that Maloney and Treliving worked together in building this team, their rose colored glasses on roster construction is also somewhat obvious.

It's a lot easier to report that Sutter is the problem than the team construction is fundamentally flawed. Especially if you're one of the two people responsible for the construction.

IMO, short of a young franchise player magically appearing (wolfey, coronato?), this is a team that is plausible post-apex and possibly not good enough to truly contend. And yet, the team also has too much cap tied up in long-term contracts to enter a rebuild.

If next year sucks, this team is ####ed until 2030

Imagine for a minute...

- Huby and Kadri have bounce back years under coaching that allows them to play to their strengths.
- Kylly returns and bolsters the team's depth on the blue line.
- Wolf either pushes Marky to play better or replaces him as the starter at some point.
- Mang comes back fully healthy and plays closer to the way he did in his 35 goal campaign.
- Young talent from the Wranglers are given more of a chance to push for roster spots than they had under Sutter.
- Overall lack of negative vibe between players and coach, resulting in more consistent play than we saw from the team last year.
- Actually practicing the power play.
- Actually practicing 3 on 3 and the shootout.

Tons of reasons to think the upcoming season will be much better than last. This is a talented roster that should not only have made the playoffs but been a hard out once they got there. Granted, any major personnel changes to the roster would throw a wrench into the outlook for the upcoming season.

Connie & Co have complicated decisions ahead. This offseason will not be an easy one to navigate.

[VilleN]

I agree. Looking at some of the teams in the playoffs - specifically Dallas and Florida - I think the Flames have a team that could make noise in the playoffs, if we what you mention above actually occurs.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's never that simple, so why be so defeatist?

The Flames may find out that 3 of the 7 UFAs in a year won't extend, and with that Conroy may make this team considerably younger in 4-6 weeks time.

Not holding my breath, but imagine how much differently you'd view this team if they selected three times in the first round in this year's draft?

I thought about this, but it likely would have made me more pessimistic. They'd be late first round picks, more likely to turn into middle six players.

The real jump would come from one of two scenarios. First, rebuilding with top-5 picks (which they can't do). Alternatively, being mediocre (like they are now) and hoping for some franchise players to develop within the system. Like Ottenger and Robinson and Hintz to compensate for Benn and Seguin.

So to the extent people are looking to be optimistic, it should rotate around Wolf and Coronato and Pelletier.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's never that simple, so why be so defeatist?

The Flames may find out that 3 of the 7 UFAs in a year won't extend, and with that Conroy may make this team considerably younger in 4-6 weeks time.

Not holding my breath, but imagine how much differently you'd view this team if they selected three times in the first round in this year's draft?

It would make a huge difference.

Although I expect any trades for UFA's to be will not include any 2023 draft picks (unless very late I guess). Teams will obviously want to move picks to later years.

The next weeks will obviously shape the team's short term, moderate term and long term future.

I really have no idea what's on the players minds these days.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I thought about this, but it likely would have made me more pessimistic. They'd be late first round picks, more likely to turn into middle six players.

The real jump would come from one of two scenarios. First, rebuilding with top-5 picks (which they can't do). Alternatively, being mediocre (like they are now) and hoping for some franchise players to develop within the system. Like Ottenger and Robinson and Hintz to compensate for Benn and Seguin.

So to the extent people are looking to be optimistic, it should rotate around Wolf and Coronato and Pelletier.

Those "forced" trades add to the prospect base in a deep draft and free up cap space which could be weaponized if the team struggles with the missing pieces.

In a calendar year you could go present state ... thin system (relatively), no cap space to three top prospects added, a trade deadline where you weaponize and add more picks for 24.

13 months from now it's a completely different conversation.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Imagine for a minute...

- Huby and Kadri have bounce back years under coaching that allows them to play to their strengths.
- Kylly returns and bolsters the team's depth on the blue line.
- Wolf either pushes Marky to play better or replaces him as the starter at some point.
- Mang comes back fully healthy and plays closer to the way he did in his 35 goal campaign.
- Young talent from the Wranglers are given more of a chance to push for roster spots than they had under Sutter.
- Overall lack of negative vibe between players and coach, resulting in more consistent play than we saw from the team last year.
- Actually practicing the power play.
- Actually practicing 3 on 3 and the shootout.

Tons of reasons to think the upcoming season will be much better than last. This is a talented roster that should not only have made the playoffs but been a hard out once they got there. Granted, any major personnel changes to the roster would throw a wrench into the outlook for the upcoming season.

Connie & Co have complicated decisions ahead. This offseason will not be an easy one to navigate.

Much of, or some of this is certainly within the realm of possibility next year. This still doesn't change the fact that anything short of massive bounce back seasons from the goaltending, Huberdeau and Kadri is going to result in falling short of expectations again, even if the team does make the playoffs.

This team made the Tkachuk trade to continue to "win now" when other, more rebuild type deals were available. If you're not winning in these first 2-3 seasons and legitimately challenging for the division, what exactly are we doing? All these older, top of the lineup players are only going to decline from now and sitting on this lineup for another couple of seasons could easily mean disaster (and that's another spree of 9-11 finishes in the conference).

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Much of, or some of this is certainly within the realm of possibility next year. This still doesn't change the fact that anything short of massive bounce back seasons from the goaltending, Huberdeau and Kadri is going to result in falling short of expectations again, even if the team does make the playoffs.

This team made the Tkachuk trade to continue to "win now" when other, more rebuild type deals were available. If you're not winning in these first 2-3 seasons and legitimately challenging for the division, what exactly are we doing? All these older, top of the lineup players are only going to decline from now and sitting on this lineup for another couple of seasons could easily mean disaster (and that's another spree of 9-11 finishes in the conference).

I think an additional 30 points from Huby, an additional 10 points from Kadri, combined with better goaltending and better powerplay, would have had the Flames challenging for the division. It really did take an onslaught of many unfortunate things happening to keep the Flames from making the playoffs. I think you're seriously underestimating how talented this team is.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I think an additional 30 points from Huby, an additional 10 points from Kadri, combined with better goaltending and better powerplay, would have had the Flames challenging for the division. It really did take an onslaught of many unfortunate things happening to keep the Flames from making the playoffs. I think you're seriously underestimating how talented this team is.

That's an understatement.

30 more goals and yes they did have 30 more in the lineup and maybe 10-15 less goals against and we are probably the second best team in the league.

[Goriders]

I think the Lindholm path will play a big part in how things play out over the offseason. More than any of the other upcoming UFAs

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Those "forced" trades add to the prospect base in a deep draft and free up cap space which could be weaponized if the team struggles with the missing pieces.

In a calendar year you could go present state ... thin system (relatively), no cap space to three top prospects added, a trade deadline where you weaponize and add more picks for 24.

13 months from now it's a completely different conversation.

Interesting idea for sure. I like it. It's basically accelerating a rebuild with whatever chips the franchise has left to play with

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Those "forced" trades add to the prospect base in a deep draft and free up cap space which could be weaponized if the team struggles with the missing pieces.

In a calendar year you could go present state ... thin system (relatively), no cap space to three top prospects added, a trade deadline where you weaponize and add more picks for 24.

13 months from now it's a completely different conversation.

A lot can change on the ice...you're right.

The part that puts me in a defeated state, its not show friends it's show business, and this team sat on a project for a decade that doubled their operating revenues and added 30%+ to their value, just so they could get tax payer money to do it. The lost opportunity cost of the project far out weighs the handout. The only companies that think that way are semi government. With that mentality it doesn't matter how good Conroy is, good people are crushed by bureaucracy every day n government gigs...the rot from the government thinking means we'll never be able to compete against organisations that are truly business minded. We're so show friends it hurts.

Our only chance is to find oil or gold in our backyard...and that's the equivalent of a generational talent in the draft. Or Murray Edwards sells the team and an entertainment mogul buys us...come on Deadpool.

[Classic_Sniper]

Don’t what to think of Conroy being promoted to GM of the Flames. He’s part of the old guard who made many mistakes with their lack of talent evaluation. But on the flipside, he has bled for this organization and is a terrific person, so it’s conflicting. At this point, whatever happens happens because I haven’t felt this disconnected with the franchise in years, just flat out indifferent you could say.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Imagine for a minute...

- Huby and Kadri have bounce back years under coaching that allows them to play to their strengths.
- Kylly returns and bolsters the team's depth on the blue line.
- Wolf either pushes Marky to play better or replaces him as the starter at some point.
- Mang comes back fully healthy and plays closer to the way he did in his 35 goal campaign.
- Young talent from the Wranglers are given more of a chance to push for roster spots than they had under Sutter.
- Overall lack of negative vibe between players and coach, resulting in more consistent play than we saw from the team last year.
- Actually practicing the power play.
- Actually practicing 3 on 3 and the shootout.

Tons of reasons to think the upcoming season will be much better than last. This is a talented roster that should not only have made the playoffs but been a hard out once they got there. Granted, any major personnel changes to the roster would throw a wrench into the outlook for the upcoming season.

Connie & Co have complicated decisions ahead. This offseason will not be an easy one to navigate.

That is a lot of things you are hoping all go right for us to be an ok-ish team at best? You say this is a talented team that should be a hard out but there is no reason to think that at all. This is a mediocre team that would be an easy out in the play-offs. They don't have game changers, they aren't a team that is hard to play against or can lock down other teams, they have a mediocre defense core with zero #1 guys or guys who can make a difference.

That is the issue that I see whenever people talk about all the positives that could happen even if you take the most optimistic of views the likely outcome is still so underwhelming. When you need that level of luck to go right to just get to maybe the 2nd round, to me, it is clear that continuing to try and win is not the way to go.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

That's an understatement.

30 more goals and yes they did have 30 more in the lineup and maybe 10-15 less goals against and we are probably the second best team in the league.

As would Seattle, Los Angeles, Winnipeg, Minnesota...

40 extra goals in the good column does a lot.