Study finds NHL enforcers die 10 yrs younger than their peers

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I used to love fights and massive Stevens hits. Holy moly, those were awesome, but like jiri, I get grossed out now. I appreciate the athleticism and all that, but barf.

Its mostly having kids in the game and secondly seeing the after effects.

I seriously think absolutely no one but players actively playing at all levels and their families get a say in this. Only people with skin in the game get a say. Owners of NHL teams, no say, extra no say. NHL players get a vote but only one of millions who play...and its anonymous. Also the kids who will never make the NHL get equal say.

I had lunch with Todd Fedoruk a while back. That dude is fataed and he knows it, he jokes about it and he's doing better than his fellow fighters. Its actually depressing as hell.

Its always the worst humans who talk about the pussification of the sport as well. They have no skin in the game, they 100% have a neckbeard, they 100% have never even had the opportunity to get into a fight in an organized sport due to being a fat big loser.

"I'll stop watching if there is no fighting!!!!"

ok there Mr. "Never had an opportunity to even possibly get a concussion because you are a fat loser who can't get to speeds that would contribute to one".

Was at a hitmen rookie camp a few years ago and these first year kids who would not make the team otherwise removed their helmets and fought, and they let them, it was a good fight, but it was kids, both sask kids, never been in a fighting league before, but they knew (their parents knew) what it meant to do this.

Both those kids made the team and still ####tily play there today.

I like the new model Fotze

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

I think it would be less, completely disappear? I don't think so as well. A lot of times it's heat of the moment, players just react. TBH, I don't want it completely ban but hope players learn to not do the predatory hits, I think those are more dangerous.

Are you ok if a player gets heated and instead of hitting someone with their fists they use there stick and treat the opposition's head like a piñata?

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

They aren't always consensual though. Having to fight back because someone is attacking you, or because of some mystical code that brands you a coward if you don't fight, isn't the same as giving consent.

Agree completely. Jumping a player like bertuzzi should result in 41 games minimum suspension and all the salary that comes with it.

Consensual fights are fine though imo.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Are you ok if a player gets heated and instead of hitting someone with their fists they use there stick and treat the opposition's head like a piñata?

when is the last time you actually saw this happen?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

when is the last time you actually saw this happen?

The odd time, McSorley, Dude that played for the North Stars, my boy when he was 6 chasing his teammate across the lacrosse floor

I guess my point is what's the difference. Why is punching people ok, but using your stick isn't if both are done in the heat of the moment and both contravene the Rule Book

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

when is the last time you actually saw this happen?

A common occurrence in Olympic hockey. They even chase each other around Olympic Village swinging their sticks like battle axes.

[GioforPM]

People should think about this whenever they complain about Lucic or other guys like that not seeking out retaliatory fights.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Are you ok if a player gets heated and instead of hitting someone with their fists they use there stick and treat the opposition's head like a piñata?

Are you ok with players swinging their stick? I'm ok with heating with fist in heat of moment.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Are you ok with players swinging their stick? I'm ok with heating with fist in heat of moment.

I actually don't mind the "heat of the moment" stuff. Fighting is a penalty currently as it always has been, we are just arguing the severity of the penalty. Players want to chuck, they chuck and the linesman come in an break it up.

Is the real issue the linesman standing back for the 20 seconds they currently do. Just tighten that up and keep the penalty. I think the players and talent alone is stopping this stuff. Facepunchers are finally recognized as the absolute liability they always were.

Also "heat of the moment" is kind of a defence a date rapist uses.

[FlamingHomer]

I think if they ban holding the opponent's jersey during a fight there would be less concussions. Pulling the head towards you as you are throwing a punch increases the impact. Also it is used to pull an opponent to the ice where the head strikes are likely even more serious than the punches.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I actually don't mind the "heat of the moment" stuff. Fighting is a penalty currently as it always has been, we are just arguing the severity of the penalty. Players want to chuck, they chuck and the linesman come in an break it up.

Is the real issue the linesman standing back for the 20 seconds they currently do. Just tighten that up and keep the penalty. I think the players and talent alone is stopping this stuff. Facepunchers are finally recognized as the absolute liability they always were.

Also "heat of the moment" is kind of a defence a date rapist uses.

Let's be honest, there is NO heat of the moment during a date rape. The one getting rape most of the time not conscious.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Trouba kind of hit need to be eliminated especially he did targeted the head and it's not last second his opponent lower the head. He has enough time to slow down and not hit him, he has 3 of his team mates surrounded that player. It's not like if he didn't hit him, that player gonna walk around him.

If Timo Meier is going skate with his head down into four Rangers, one of which is Jacob Trouba, in a game 7, it’s nobody’s fault but Timo Meier’s when he gets KO’d.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If Timo Meier is going skate with his head down into four Rangers, one of which is Jacob Trouba, in a game 7, it’s nobody’s fault but Timo Meier’s when he gets KO’d.

Oh okay.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by FlamingHomer

I think if they ban holding the opponent's jersey during a fight there would be less concussions. Pulling the head towards you as you are throwing a punch increases the impact. Also it is used to pull an opponent to the ice where the head strikes are likely even more serious than the punches.

Banning the grappling aspect of hockey fights would almost completely wipe them out, no?

Guys just have to stand back and throw hands on skates? Who’s gonna do that?

[just_tim]

Better reffing would help, especially enforcing the instigator rule. When was the last time that was called? It could, and should, be called every time someone jumps a guy after a good hit. As to predatory (legal) hits, football has unnecessary roughness. Hockey needs something like that. That said, it’s an emotional game and fights are part of the history and fabric of the game. A spontaneous fight with 2 willing combatants is rare, exciting, and often now between 2 guys that don’t normally fight. The role of the enforcer is being naturally phased out as taking up a roster position in today’s fast and skilled game with a one-dimensional player is pretty much over. Guys like Lucic come with skills beyond clubbing another player.

[PuckSlap]

Let the players vote. See where it leads. Now that most of the goon type players are almost all gone in the majors, the leagues can start implementing new rules. But, I do believe with the speed of the game where it is, and how players will still get hit by sticks, we will never see the end of all fighting,.unless we see the end of the NHL

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Owen15]

I am against fighting mostly. But not going to be dishonest, I love when a hotly contested game boils over once in a while.

I would have 100% been ok with someone fighting Jamie Benn last year in playoffs. As an example.

However, the facts are very clear. Fighting is seriously impacting people in a drastic way.

So I’m good banning it because 99.9% fighting is gratuitous.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by just_tim

Better reffing would help, especially enforcing the instigator rule. When was the last time that was called? It could, and should, be called every time someone jumps a guy after a good hit. As to predatory (legal) hits, football has unnecessary roughness. Hockey needs something like that. That said, it’s an emotional game and fights are part of the history and fabric of the game. A spontaneous fight with 2 willing combatants is rare, exciting, and often now between 2 guys that don’t normally fight. The role of the enforcer is being naturally phased out as taking up a roster position in today’s fast and skilled game with a one-dimensional player is pretty much over. Guys like Lucic come with skills beyond clubbing another player.

The rule should be if you jump a guy after a big hit it is automatically 5 and a game.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I know we like to critique the league, and not sure if this has continued the last three years, but an old ESPN article has fights down to 224 in the 18/19 season versus 734 10 years earlier. And it wasn't a one off, it was a continuous downward trend. That's a 70% decrease, which is substantial.

My point in bringing it up, is I certainly don't enjoy hockey any less because of it, and I'll admit I used to get pumped for a good tilt (now like some I find it more concerning for the players involved). So I think we over state in general just how much a complete elimination of fighting would have on our enjoyment. I think we'd forget about it very quickly, and it would clearly be the right thing to do.

Which circles back to the critique of the NHL. 70% reduction is pretty good progress, but the argument could and probably should be made, that we don't need to "ween" off of fights, we should just eliminate them cold turkey given the harm they cause. I actually think it would be pretty easy to do now. The NHL has pretty much eliminated the "pure enforcer roll", people only good at fights aren't worth the wasted roster spots to teams anymore. So all you really need to do, is make the punishment for fighting severe enough. Automatic 10 game suspension for fighting would likely do it. Make it be too much to lose to bother to do it. It wouldn't stop emotions from getting up there on ice, but it would likely stop most interactions resulting in the damaging activity discussed in the article, minus maybe one or two occasions a year when someone just loses it in the moment.

It's time for the NHL to move to this. We don't need scraps any more. Ironically, I think the biggest push back from this would come from the players who realize fighting is one of their "attributes of value" they bring to the table, and would see the removal of fighting as diminishing their value proposition and their ability to make a living. These people know the harms as well and IMO knowingly take the risk for the most part. But this is a case where as an employer, I think the NHL needs to remove the environment where this type of stuff happens in their work place, simply because it's the right thing to do for everyone involved.

Stopping the fighting at the top, removes the path to the ultimate goal (the NHL and the big paychecks) with fighting. Which eventually will lead to no more fighting at lower levels. The lower leagues are littered with scraps because of the "fighters" who were pursuing their dream of making the NHL, who didn't make it, but still want to follow their dream or make some money doing the skill they pursued. If you take the NHL dream away from someone who only held onto it for as long as they did because they thought, maybe I can "fight" my way into the show, those people will start to chose a different path earlier on in life when they realize they don't have the hockey skills to make it.

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There are still people who say “keep your head up, son” and whine whenever people disagree with monster hits that knock players out.

A big part of the problem isn’t just the NHL and what they want, it’s that there are fans who are happy to see these guys die as part of the cost of preserving the “purity” of the sport.

Some of the people who say that are NHL players. The NHLPA doesn't seem to have an issue with fighting or hard checks. Why do fans feel the need to speak for the people who actually play the game at the highest level?