Ring Road To Nowhere

[Bownesian]

Originally Posted by Glenflame

They just want more money for them hanging around without doing anything all their life so that plan is not dead yet. As long as the City gets a new plan on the table to say "look, we have a new plan without passing through your land so you need to reconsideration your decision; or we will proceed with another plan and you guys will get nothing"

I think that the City's best approach would be to tell the band council that we will consider any fully ratified offers they propose while we make preparations to build the bridge over Weaselhead and an interchange at 37th that does not include access to their casino on our dime. No more *us* making offers to them, no more good faith negotiations.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Ace

My commute to the new costco just went from about 20 min to 4...YES!!!

Symons Valley to Trans Canada in about 13 min (and that includes a couple of lights)

Drove this section today (I live in Evanston), and its a freaking brilliant stretch of road. Unbelievable how much good it is going to do this area, I'm positively delighted with being able to get to Shaganappi, that Costco mall, and Crowchild trail so easily. It's even convenient going the other way, up to North Pointe superstore and theater, no more cutting through Hanson Ranch.

After we got home, my wife and I decided there's no way we're moving now....

[Smyth's Skate]

I used it today too. I was hauling a load of junk to the dump, so I jumped at Harvest Hills and jetted over to Sarcee. It was great. I cannot wait for the Deerfoot Exchange to open.

[browna]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...820/story.html

Looks like the band leader wants to come back to the table...although telling the government, a group he negotiated this with for the last 5 years, and who he reached an agreement, that he endorsed 2 weeks, with, to "come to its senses", is ludicrous.

Clearly, he's trying to save face amongst his members by trying to weakly take shots at the deal and squeeze something more out of it, but he's seeing a half billion dollar legacy and his own pride and reputation in telling everyone that this deal was going to be done, when he got elected back 5 years ago, go down the toliet.

Thankfully, it seems the province and city aren't at all interested in any of this double talk. The agreement was presented as is, again, endorsed by Big Plume to the band members, and it was still rejected.

IMO, the members played russian roulette hoping to hold the province, city, and Calgarians hostage, and trying squeeze something more out of the province, after the clear indiciation that this was the last deal on the table. The city and province's quick response in moving forward with new plans, however more expensive, in the last week called the member's bluff swiftly, and now, instead of the $750k or so per member, its a big fat 0.

If the members want to re-vote on the same proposal and change their mind in the next few weeks, that's the only way the band gets one taxpayer cent of this project, let alone $500 million...and its up to the band to make that decision, not the city and province to play the waiting game as they have for the past 5+ years in this particular negotiation.

[Glenflame]

Originally Posted by browna

http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...820/story.html

Looks like the band leader wants to come back to the table...although telling the government, a group he negotiated this with for the last 5 years, and who he reached an agreement, that he endorsed 2 weeks, with, to "come to its senses", is ludicrous.

Clearly, he's trying to save face amongst his members by trying to weakly take shots at the deal and squeeze something more out of it, but he's seeing a half billion dollar legacy and his own pride and reputation in telling everyone that this deal was going to be done, when he got elected back 5 years ago, go down the toliet.

Thankfully, it seems the province and city aren't at all interested in any of this double talk. The agreement was presented as is, again, endorsed by Big Plume to the band members, and it was still rejected.

IMO, the members played russian roulette hoping to hold the province, city, and Calgarians hostage, and trying squeeze something more out of the province, after the clear indiciation that this was the last deal on the table. The city and province's quick response in moving forward with new plans, however more expensive, in the last week called the member's bluff swiftly, and now, instead of the $750k or so per member, its a big fat 0.

If the members want to re-vote on the same proposal and change their mind in the next few weeks, that's the only way the band gets one taxpayer cent of this project, let alone $500 million...and its up to the band to make that decision, not the city and province to play the waiting game as they have for the past 5+ years in this particular negotiation.

You might not know the City is looking for new proposals for the new plans from a few consultants now. So, I think the City takes it seriously to consider another plan. It would be stupid not to move forward and just come to the table with them again. The band members know the City has no the second plan so they will insist on more money.

[Resolute 14]

The band members can go f themselves, really.

As noted above, only when the Band comes with a ratified plan at a reasonable price - and at this point that would be much LESS than the last offer - then the city, province and feds should consider it.

Until then, I agree with the above post. Find an alternate route, and tell the Tsuu Tina that any access off our roads onto their land is paid for by them, not us.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Bownesian

I think that the City's best approach would be to tell the band council that we will consider any fully ratified offers they propose while we make preparations to build the bridge over Weaselhead and an interchange at 37th that does not include access to their casino on our dime. No more *us* making offers to them, no more good faith negotiations.

I appear to be out of thanks so I guess I have to quote this and agree with it instead. And I fully agree. If they're going to steadfastly reject all proposals, that even they are in on concocting, and maintain that the land is of some historical value to them, this is the only option.

They know we want a road. They know we're willing to pay for it. If they're willing to hook us up, great. If not, they're squandering an opportunity to seriously enhance their own future. That's alot of money we're offering. If they hope to build things in the future that we'll support (ie the casino), they need to stop saying one thing and doing another.

I fully respect their right to deny us their land. But the constant dangling of the carrot has just gone too far. AFAIC, take that money and keep it on our land. Expropriate a string of houses along 37th in Lakeview and build a bridge. Sorry, residents of Lakeview.. It's for the greater good, much like the houses that got expropriated to build the glenmore and elbow interchange. We can't change the fact that it was ill planned, all we can do is fix it. If the Tsuu Tina won't help then to hell with them. Something tells me that in 50 or 60 years, when the city has grown further west and started to really surround the reserve, they're going to look back on this opportunity and do a facepalm.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Something tells me that in 50 or 60 years, when the city has grown further west and started to really surround the reserve, they're going to look back on this opportunity and do a facepalm.

If there is anyone left alive from the mini civil war that is going to go down on that reserve when everyone who voted 'yes' and would have happily taken the $750,000 get nothing and take it out on their leaders/neighbors etc etc.

[4X4]

This whole situation reminds me of a picture I saw of a building that was built over a house. Don't remember where it was, but it was a fairly tall building that was proposed on a block in some city. The developer bought up the whole block except for one house that the owner refused to sell. So the developer modified his plans, got approval, and built the building anyway.
Since land owners have no rights to the space above their land, the building is cantilevered over the house.

[Bownesian]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Expropriate a string of houses along 37th in Lakeview and build a bridge. Sorry, residents of Lakeview.. It's for the greater good, much like the houses that got expropriated to build the glenmore and elbow interchange.

I'm not sure that there will be much for complaints there. The 37th street Lakeview folks have also been in the news over the last few years regarding the problems they are having with their new neighbours. Dozing a row of houses and erecting a sound barrier will do a lot to alleviate that as well.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Glenflame

You might not know the City is looking for new proposals for the new plans from a few consultants now. So, I think the City takes it seriously to consider another plan. It would be stupid not to move forward and just come to the table with them again. The band members know the City has no the second plan so they will insist on more money.

I do know the city wants to move on this as quickly as possible. This has stretched out 3 years longer than the city hoped for.

As a Lakeview resident, I know all about the plans the city has ready to go tomorrow, so them having a internal backup plan is a given.

For example, the plan to widen Glenmore from Crowchild to Sarcee has been in place and ready to go tomorrow, for 4 years, but as was told to me by a city planner at an open house in 2005, they were waiting on the ring road deal to be signed, and didn't want to do this work to allow better access to the upcoming (at the time) casino.

If the band wants to reconsider, they better act quick. The city was fed up with the time the process was taking in the last 4+ years, they're not going to wait around very long this time after a long and drawn out negotiation process, seemingly approved by the Elders, ended up falling flat.

In addition to the money they're missing out on with the ring road, they're unlikely to see any concessions (infrastructure or otherwise) from the city or the province when they want a favour when it come to the inveitable future (especailly now since the half billion dollar payment from the 3 levels of government isn't coming) reserve development.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

If there is anyone left alive from the mini civil war that is going to go down on that reserve when everyone who voted 'yes' and would have happily taken the $750,000 get nothing and take it out on their leaders/neighbors etc etc.

Yeah. You gotta figure that the ones that voted yes are choked. It really doesn't take a business exec to realize that they've really shot themselves in the foot. And from my perspective, it appears to be out of spite.
Again, I fully respect their right to not sell the land. I kind of understand it. But seriously, they need to join the 21st century. It's a swath of land. There's more where that came from and there alot of profit involved in the process. FFS, they could have negotiated into the contract things like maintenance or building contracts or something. People that prefer to do nothing truly baffle me.

[Old Yeller]

I do quite enjoy how Bronco gave an interview today and talked about moving ahead on the interchange at 37th and Glenmore quite quickly and that access to the casino will probably be affected.

It stands to reason he's right and the Tsuu Tina should have expected this. I mean most of the traffic is east/west along Glenmore and North of Glenmore on 37th so it stands to reason the interchange is going to be designed more around the problem areas than they lightly trafficed area south of Glenmore on 37th.

[Dan02]

It'd be awesome if they essentially cut off the casino with the interchange.

[Glenflame]

Originally Posted by Dan02

It'd be awesome if they essentially cut off the casino with the interchange.

The construction of interchange at 37St. & Glenmore will definitely kill their business for two years.

[oxygen]

If they cut off access to the casino I would consider voting for Bronco in the next election. Not a huge fan of his, but this move would give him 4 more years in my books.

[RW99]

Interesting idea, but it wont happen. I can't see them cutting off access.

[Resolute 14]

I'm almost inclined to agree. Glad that council voted unanimously to begin work on that interchange, which has been badly needed for over a decade. It's definitely past time to stop footing around the SE ring road and start getting things fixed.

[Frequitude]

Is there a map showing the land that the band would have received as compensation?

[Resolute 14]

^ not sure, but I believe it was on the NW corner of their reserve. Basically, an extra 2000 acres in exchange for the 4-500 the governments would need for the road.