2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Shazam]

After reading about MacKinnon in the Zadorov thread, this team doesn't stand a chance.

[the-rasta-masta]

When it comes to Eichel, the Flames have already done their due diligence on his health. I have a source that confirmed to me over a month ago that the medical staff and training staff were tasked to “Look into Jack Eichel”. (Mods can PM for source confirmation). To me the fact that we are still in the mix means that the Flames are comfortable with the approach that Eichel wants to take, or else have weighed the risk and are using that as a basis to what they would be comfortable giving up in a trade. Not exactly groundbreaking info considering all the smoke that the Flames are in the mix with Eichel, as you’d have to assume that the Flames have some sort of comfort anyways.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

"organizational depth"

Fellas, we played luminaries like Dominik Simon, Ritchie, and Nordstrom in our regular rotation last year.

The reason we had to play luminaries like Simon, Ritchie and Nordstrom is because we have no organizational depth. We have no youth ready to step up in be NHL players. That's why these guys get signed, because they have to fill out a roster where there is no youth capable of stepping up.

You're acting like we have so much to lose here... we were a team who didn't even make the playoffs.

Just the hopes of being a good team.

4-7 assets who are unlikely to impact our ability to win a cup are worth the chance to get a franchise changing asset.

Remove four to seven middle of the lineup players and tell me how good any team is.

And let's be clear, the rumors are all 4 assets. Most here can justify giving up to 5 to beat other bids. I havent seen 7 suggested but hyperbole reigns as always.

We have seen everything from four to seven assets. The seven asset trade suggestion was just a few days ago.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The reason we had to play luminaries like Simon, Ritchie and Nordstrom is because we have no organizational depth. We have no youth ready to step up in be NHL players. That's why these guys get signed, because they have to fill out a roster where there is no youth capable of stepping up.



Just the hopes of being a good team.



Remove four to seven middle of the lineup players and tell me how good any team is.



We have seen everything from four to seven assets. The seven asset trade suggestion was just a few days ago.

Literally not one person has suggested trading "4 to 7 middle of the lineup players" nor would Buffalo even want that.

Let's be realistic here this would be a futures based deal with most of the value coming in the form of prospects and picks.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The reason we had to play luminaries like Simon, Ritchie and Nordstrom is because we have no organizational depth. We have no youth ready to step up in be NHL players. That's why these guys get signed, because they have to fill out a roster where there is no youth capable of stepping up.



Just the hopes of being a good team.



Remove four to seven middle of the lineup players and tell me how good any team is.



We have seen everything from four to seven assets. The seven asset trade suggestion was just a few days ago.

Under your assumption every single one of the assets we trade pans out.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Under your assumption every single one of the assets we trade pans out.

I am. You're also making the assumption that Eichel is going to recover from his surgery and be the same player, and that Eichel is going to come over from Buffalo and have a greater impact than what he has in Buffalo.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I am. You're also making the assumption that Eichel is going to recover from his surgery and be the same player, and that Eichel is going to come over from Buffalo and have a greater impact than what he has in Buffalo.

If the Flames end up making the move, I'm certain their medical staff will be confident is Eichel's ability to return at an elite level.

Eichel doesn't need to have a greater impact than he had in Buffalo. He just needs to be part of the team and play like a first line center.

Since Eichel joined the league the Sabers have consistently iced one of the worst rosters in the league with poor coaches running the bench.

As long as Eichel can come back and play at a high level I would have high expectations for a Sutter team with Eichel, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Markstrom, etc.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I am. You're also making the assumption that Eichel is going to recover from his surgery and be the same player, and that Eichel is going to come over from Buffalo and have a greater impact than what he has in Buffalo.

Pretty sure I have better odds on mine than magic beans

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by bax

If the Flames end up making the move, I'm certain their medical staff will be confident is Eichel's ability to return at an elite level.

They better be. This is a $50M decision.

Eichel doesn't need to have a greater impact than he had in Buffalo. He just needs to be part of the team and play like a first line center.

He needs to be a hell of a lot better than he was in Buffalo. He has to learn to play both sides of the puck or Sutter will kill him. If he brings his Buffalo performance with him, we'll be Buffalo West.

Since Eichel joined the league the Sabers have consistently iced one of the worst rosters in the league with poor coaches running the bench.

That's a great narrative, but not true. Buffalo has made plenty of moves to improve the team and they have iced some good talent. Why that talent hasn't turned into something, especially with a supposed superstar like Jack Eichel on the team, is a concern. Coaching plays a big part in that, as we've seen in Calgary and Edmonton. But the larger problem still lands directly on the players and not coming together to play like a team.

As long as Eichel can come back and play at a high level I would have high expectations for a Sutter team with Eichel, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Markstrom, etc.

As would I. It would be division champion or bust, then at least the second or third round of the playoffs. The problem is, our salary structure and lack of organizational depth may not make either of expectations a possibility. You need depth to go anywhere in the playoffs. Depth would still be our biggest problem.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I am. You're also making the assumption that Eichel is going to recover from his surgery and be the same player, and that Eichel is going to come over from Buffalo and have a greater impact than what he has in Buffalo.

This was a bubble team with a broken Sean Monahan playing those minutes. Heck, it's largely the same core that won the western conference two years ago, sans a revamped defense core but plus a goalie in his prime.

If Jack Eichel can do anything close to his thing from Buffalo, probably on a scoring line with Johnny Hockey, and Elias Lindholm can do his thing, probably on a two-way line with Eatbread, and Mikael Backlund can do his thing, probably on a matchup line with Blake Coleman, and Matthew Tkachuk can do his thing on any of the three aformentioned lines, this is a deep, balanced team. Eichel doesn't need to play 22 minutes a night here as he did in Buffalo, either. He'll probably see similar usage to Gaudreau, who under Sutter was around 18-19 a night.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I am. You're also making the assumption that Eichel is going to recover from his surgery and be the same player, and that Eichel is going to come over from Buffalo and have a greater impact than what he has in Buffalo.

Yes and yes.

This entire process and the way it has played out should exemplify exactly why the Sabres are the Sabres.

The Flames might be a middling, lost-in-the-wilderness club, but that’s actually kinda hard to do. It’s harder than losing ten years at a time.

The Sabres, like the Oilers, are a bad organization because they do silly, embarrassing things with regularity.

They both hold news conferences that quickly descend into parody, they hand out absurd contracts to anyone willing to stay there, and they’ve both managed to alienate an elite centre from the 2015 draft - though against all odds, Buffalo seems to have ruined that relationship faster than Edmonton.

The Flames have a roster chock full of good supporting pieces, but only one skater who would start The SCF on the first line at his natural position, and that’s Gaudreau.

They have a solid if unspectacular blue line, a good goalie, an elite coach, and Darryl had them firmly middle-of-the-pack for Goals against by the end of the season.

Need a top dog.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Pretty sure I have better odds on mine than magic beans

Well, consider that three of those magic beans are known quantities, maybe not. It's hilarious that this continually has to be pointed out, but the Sabres have gotten worse from the moment Jack Eichel arrived, not better. Does Eichel not have to accept the responsibility for some of that? I think there is a lot of burying of heads in the sand going on right now and people are not looking at the whole player. We're not getting a Connor McDavid or Nathan MacKinnon here. There needs to be more to his game than scoring points that don't matter.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Not that it matters but this has been brought up before, How would this make them brother in laws? My understanding is Sean's only brother in law would be his sister Jacqueline's husband

Brothers in law.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Well, consider that three of those magic beans are known quantities, maybe not. It's hilarious that this continually has to be pointed out, but the Sabres have gotten worse from the moment Jack Eichel arrived, not better. Does Eichel not have to accept the responsibility for some of that? I think there is a lot of burying of heads in the sand going on right now and people are not looking at the whole player. We're not getting a Connor McDavid or Nathan MacKinnon here. There needs to be more to his game than scoring points that don't matter.

Buffalo isn’t exactly the organization to look at to evaluate decisions. They tanked for McDavid, got Eichel instead. Already off to a bad start, everyone and their dog could see what they were doing. Well, Jack is now a Sabre and knows he basically has to lead this team out from the depths of hell. They did acquire ROR, but that wasn’t enough to put them over the top when you have garbage talent surrounding you. They never had the depth nor the defense to win games on a consistent basis. They had a fantastic start to the season one year and then crumbled. Doesn’t help that coaching was atrocious too at some point.

You’re absolutely right that Eichel should be accountable for some things. But, even the most elite players need another elite guy to get them going. Where would Draisaitl be without McDavid? Rantanen without MacKinnon? Would Pastrnak have had the same elite status if he were drafted in Arizona or Columbus, not able to play with Bergeron or Marchand? Would Panarin have been the same effective player he is without the help of Kane and Toews when he had entered the league?

Way too many what if’s and variables, so I’ll just say this: I don’t want another Iginla/Kipper situation, where we have two solid pieces and just cross our fingers. That’ll only get us so far, and probably embarrassed again by whatever team is on the East. Get Johnny a #1 center. Are there any other ones available? Nope, so it’s time we pony up for the one that is on the market, signed for 5 more years.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

They better be. This is a $50M decision.



He needs to be a hell of a lot better than he was in Buffalo. He has to learn to play both sides of the puck or Sutter will kill him. If he brings his Buffalo performance with him, we'll be Buffalo West.



That's a great narrative, but not true. Buffalo has made plenty of moves to improve the team and they have iced some good talent. Why that talent hasn't turned into something, especially with a supposed superstar like Jack Eichel on the team, is a concern. Coaching plays a big part in that, as we've seen in Calgary and Edmonton. But the larger problem still lands directly on the players and not coming together to play like a team.



As would I. It would be division champion or bust, then at least the second or third round of the playoffs. The problem is, our salary structure and lack of organizational depth may not make either of expectations a possibility. You need depth to go anywhere in the playoffs. Depth would still be our biggest problem.

What makes you think Sutter will kill Eichel? If he's willing to work with Sean Monahan he would ecstatic to work with Eichel.

This is the NHL- no one guy can carry a team- even the best player in the world can only elevate Edmonton to a bubble team so why are you blaming Jack Eichel for all of Buffalo's failures?

What exactly have the Sabers done to improve their team like you say?

-Ice Ristolainen 25 minutes/night since he was 20 years old and never find a guy to share those minutes?

-Use 5 coaches over the course of 6 years with only 1 of those guys having significant experience?

-Never finding a number 1 goalie until Lehner showed up and then immediately letting him walk for nothing

-Using a combination of Ullmark, Hutton, Tokarski, Johnson, Nilsson in the net?

-Giving massive contracts to Skinner and Okposo?

-Surrounding Eichel and O'Rielly with such a crap team that O'Rielly lost his love for the game? Then trading him for peanuts?

Buffalo has been a one man show basically since 2015 and one man can only do so much. If Calgary were to acquire Eichel they would be in a vastly better spot to compete than Buffalo ever was.

Even right now Calgary is closer to a contender than they are to being Buffalo West and that's without Eichel.

Depth is much easier to acquire than elite talent- take the shot when you can.

Gaudreau - Eichel - Coleman
Tkahcuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Dube - Backlund - Pitlick
Lucic - Ritchie - Lewis

is fine depth- maybe not the best in the league, but great defensively in the bottom six- especially under a Sutter team.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

When it comes to Eichel, the Flames have already done their due diligence on his health. I have a source that confirmed to me over a month ago that the medical staff and training staff were tasked to “Look into Jack Eichel”. (Mods can PM for source confirmation). To me the fact that we are still in the mix means that the Flames are comfortable with the approach that Eichel wants to take, or else have weighed the risk and are using that as a basis to what they would be comfortable giving up in a trade. Not exactly groundbreaking info considering all the smoke that the Flames are in the mix with Eichel, as you’d have to assume that the Flames have some sort of comfort anyways.

I had to go back to the Gaudreau contract and Eichel speculation thread, and holy balls it has been a month. Thanks for the info, that was one of the main questions I had around this, is what the Flames doctors thoughts were on the surgery. I think you are right that if they are still in discussions then they seem to be okay with the risk.

[Britflamesfan]

What's so sad is everybody is desperate for Calgary to improve. Does not matter which side of any argument you are on we all want Calgary to improve in all aspects and quite frankly the fans deserve to have this happen, we are a very loyal bunch. So far I am very disappointed this summer as we do not seem to be greatly improved at all, lord only knows what is going to happen to JG and I really do not want to be paying 9m or more for Tchuck. Monahan is broken and seems that way at the end of each season and should be moved. We also lost our best defenceman and Captain. Boy there is still a lot to do.

[Psytic]

It feels like it just makes sense to me to get it done. Including Coronato makes sense then they dont even have to sweat if he's going to do the loop hole or not and his stock may allow them to keep Monahan for our "Run". I think Including Mangiapane makes a lot of sense to hes already shown hes going to hold out for max dollars so I dont believe his next contract is going to be very easy to negotiate / it could become an issue so sell high imo. Id move Pelletier we have an abundance of LWers, Keep Zary we can maybe move Backlund down the line to re-coup picks for cap relief and slot Zary in as third line replacement. The 1st as people have said the odds this pick is as good as Eichel is pretty slim with the Flames track record. Move Monahan to RW, if he comes back healthy and just has to worry about finishing feeds from Lindholm and Chucky that's an insane 2nd line. More salary to move but they could do the LTIR trick until Eichel is ready and stack the deck.

OUT : Coronato, Pelletier, Mangiapane, 1st

Gaudreau - Eichel - Coleman
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Monahan
Dube - Backlund/ Zary - Pitlick
Lucic - Ritchie - Lewis

[dammage79]

Sorry folks, Coronoto is not a trade piece. Stop. Just stop it.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Sorry folks, Coronoto is not a trade piece. Stop. Just stop it.

100% he is.