Russia invades Ukraine

[btimbit]

Unsure on the reliability of the source, but I just read that Latvia and Estonia plan to try and invoke a NATO Article 4 consultation

#### might escalate very quickly

https://news.err.ee/1608510812/eston...nato-article-4

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Unsure on the reliability of the source, but I just read that Latvia and Estonia plan to try and invoke a NATO Article 4 consultation

#### might escalate very quickly

https://news.err.ee/1608510812/eston...nato-article-4

They will, at very least, discuss if they could pose some kind of military response.

[nieuwy-89]

Despite the buildup, this is shocking and so sad. I’m sure NATO has a plan to keep this contained but that’s no comfort to the people of Ukraine right now.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by nik-

https://twitter.com/user/status/1496710912648044548

Interesting. I expect a lot of statements of condemnation, intense disappointment and calls for peace tomorrow. Followed by a lot of clapping for themselves and then doing nothing.

Exactly. Who cares?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Unsure on the reliability of the source, but I just read that Latvia and Estonia plan to try and invoke a NATO Article 4 consultation

#### might escalate very quickly

https://news.err.ee/1608510812/eston...nato-article-4

I used to work with a girl who was from Estonia, but was ethnically Russian. She was pretty open about her dislike for Estonians and claimed that Estonia should be part of Russia. More than 25% of their population are Russian, and half of them were actually born in Russia, and almost all the rest are 1st or 2nd generation.

Nice person otherwise, but there is a lot of indoctrination among Russian settlers and their descendants within former Soviet countries. The partial Rusification of the Baltic states has always been an elephant in the room when they were admitted into NATO. Depending how this war goes, there could be a lot of infighting there.

[agulati]

Best YouTube channel/online source to follow?

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Unsure on the reliability of the source, but I just read that Latvia and Estonia plan to try and invoke a NATO Article 4 consultation

#### might escalate very quickly

https://news.err.ee/1608510812/eston...nato-article-4

20 minutes ago Zelenskyy made a statement that included

A minute ago I had a conversation with President Biden. The US have already started uniting international support.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...asion-liveblog

[karl262]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

That would be the definition of out of hand by that point.

Maybe not. There's a nuclear strategy called escalate to de escalate or something like that, designed to scare the bejesus out of the other side and hopefully get them to back down. It would entail the use of a single smaller weapon as kind of a warning shot and demonstration of the willingness to "go there". It's a high risk high reward kinda strategy.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I used to work with a girl who was from Estonia, but was ethnically Russian. She was pretty open about her dislike for Estonians and claimed that Estonia should be part of Russia. More than 25% of their population are Russian, and half of them were actually born in Russia, and almost all the rest are 1st or 2nd generation.

Nice person otherwise, but there is a lot of indoctrination among Russian settlers and their descendants within former Soviet countries. The partial Rusification of the Baltic states has always been an elephant in the room when they were admitted into NATO. Depending how this war goes, there could be a lot of infighting there.

Don't judge all ethnically Russians based on one person. The opinions in Russia vary. The people in Russia don't want war. There's an aspect of propaganda in any country, and obviously a fair amount of people think that Putin was provoked.

The really dangerous thing about the whole situation is that all sides treat it as we're the good guys defending from the bad guys. That's how long term conflicts are made, you stop seeing people on the other side and just see enemies.

A part of me hopes that the west shows Russia the nuclear stick. As in if you don't retreat from Ukranian territory by *insert date* that will be considered as a war on Nato/EU. Otherwise, I don't see a quick resolution, but a long grueling bloody war.

[flylock shox]

I just managed to connect with my friend in Kiev, who was woken by explosions this morning but is otherwise safe and hoping things stay calm in her part of the city. Very glad she's still connected to the outside world, even if there is little we can do to help.

[Chingas]

Originally Posted by karl262

Maybe not. There's a nuclear strategy called escalate to de escalate or something like that, designed to scare the bejesus out of the other side and hopefully get them to back down. It would entail the use of a single smaller weapon as kind of a warning shot and demonstration of the willingness to "go there". It's a high risk high reward kinda strategy.

Sounds like a scary hope like #### strategy to me.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

I just managed to connect with my friend in Kiev, who was woken by explosions this morning but is otherwise safe and hoping things stay calm in her part of the city. Very glad she's still connected to the outside world, even if there is little we can do to help.

Very glad to hear.

My brother in law still can't contact his family. They live along the coast and in the eastern parts so it seems like the rumours of internet and cell phones being cut off are likely true

[Krovikan]

Sounds like the greens, part of the ruling coalition want Germany to start providing support (including weapons) to Ukraine. So maybe Germany's ruling coalition might start getting serious about the threat?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1496731521000124423

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Chingas

Sounds like a scary hope like #### strategy to me.

I’m not much of a military buff, but that strategy definitely seems like welcoming an automatic nuclear response from Russia.

Generally, when people say “high risk, high reward” they aren’t talking about the possible extinction of life on earth as the “high risk” element of the equation.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Very glad to hear.

My brother in law still can't contact his family. They live along the coast and in the eastern parts so it seems like the rumours of internet and cell phones being cut off are likely true

I am sorry to hear that. Hopefully they're able to stay safe and connect with someone locally who can get a message out to friends and family. The uncertainty of it all is so unsettling.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

I just managed to connect with my friend in Kiev, who was woken by explosions this morning but is otherwise safe and hoping things stay calm in her part of the city. Very glad she's still connected to the outside world, even if there is little we can do to help.

yes, my friends in Poltava, and family in Kiev still have connection. I did lose connection with everyone in Kharkov at the moment.

[skudr248]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I used to work with a girl who was from Estonia, but was ethnically Russian. She was pretty open about her dislike for Estonians and claimed that Estonia should be part of Russia. More than 25% of their population are Russian, and half of them were actually born in Russia, and almost all the rest are 1st or 2nd generation.

Nice person otherwise, but there is a lot of indoctrination among Russian settlers and their descendants within former Soviet countries. The partial Rusification of the Baltic states has always been an elephant in the room when they were admitted into NATO. Depending how this war goes, there could be a lot of infighting there.

This is like a complete 180 of what I experienced in Latvia since coming back and visiting. I noticed an even further disconnect from 2013 -> 2016, especially the younger folk (35 and under), which have a large hatred for Russia.

[Bunk]

If Ukraine falls and there is timid response from NATO and the west, the Baltics are next in line in Putin's maniacal reclamation of the empire. Probably under the guise of "liberating" Russian minorities in countries like Estonia.

My mother's whole side is Estonian. She despises Russia with the fire of a thousand suns.

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I used to work with a girl who was from Estonia, but was ethnically Russian. She was pretty open about her dislike for Estonians and claimed that Estonia should be part of Russia. More than 25% of their population are Russian, and half of them were actually born in Russia, and almost all the rest are 1st or 2nd generation.

Nice person otherwise, but there is a lot of indoctrination among Russian settlers and their descendants within former Soviet countries. The partial Rusification of the Baltic states has always been an elephant in the room when they were admitted into NATO. Depending how this war goes, there could be a lot of infighting there.

[jeffman]

It’s like Alex ovechkin against Anton babchuk out there

[Chingas]

Has Belarus been a proxy state this whole time? Or did they cower as to not suffer the same fate?