2020/2021 English Premier League

[Senator Clay Davis]

Lol Mourinho ####housing even in defeat. He's a football terrorist, but still, God bless that man.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1339330670330568704

https://twitter.com/user/status/1339331776137859072

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Lol Mourinho ####housing even in defeat. He's a football terrorist, but still, God bless that man.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1339330670330568704

https://twitter.com/user/status/1339331776137859072

He's not wrong though. Klopp was screaming and ranting and raving. We all know that Mourinho is getting a red for that.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

It’s disappointing, but you have to take your chances. Spurs played well and easily had the best chances. A fluke deflection and a defender slips on a corner and we lose our second game of the season. It’s not great but it happens.

I think Jose had them setup really well. We win games that way and why would you change that heading into this one? Obviously it didn’t work out today, but it’s not like we got destroyed. If Bergwijn hits the post a little left of where he did, or Kane gets the header on target it’s a different conversation.

But that Liverpool team is hardly incredible. They’re going to drop more points this season and we’ll have our chances. They can blame the injuries or whatever other excuses Klopp has (the wind, the state of the pitch, clearing snow on half a field, etc.), but at the end of the day the team that let Villa pump in 7 is still there.

I dont disagree. So why didnt you attack them?

Either way, I'll take the points. Spurs scared us a couple of times there.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Just saw a stat that Liverpool had more than 200 passes in the final third. Spurs had...19. And would have won with marginally better finishing. Of course Klopp gets a pass for his antics, he always has, fair or not. Makes me hope Spurs win the reverse fixture to see what kind of antics Mourinho will pull out.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Locke

I dont disagree. So why didnt you attack them?

Either way, I'll take the points. Spurs scared us a couple of times there.

I think that this team is drilled into playing on the counter and it's worked out really well for us overall. We score, we don't give many up and we're miles ahead of where we were last year. Why come out and try to impose ourselves on Liverpool? We had that game and if anything, Liverpool got a better result than they deserved. They didn't have the quality of chances we did, and got a lucky one in the first place. It happens...a loss here isn't a disaster and we move along.

If we keep this rolling and stick with the plan, we should be in the mix at the end of the season. That's what matters here.

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Just saw a stat that Liverpool had more than 200 passes in the final third. Spurs had...19. And would have won with marginally better finishing. Of course Klopp gets a pass for his antics, he always has, fair or not. Makes me hope Spurs win the reverse fixture to see what kind of antics Mourinho will pull out.

I think that time off has matured Jose. Being unemployed for a year and a half has probably given him some time to reflect and maybe change his approach a little. As far as Klopp, I can't believe he gets away with that behaviour.

[The Big Chill]

The high quality chances were pretty similar, and Liverpool had way more medium quality chances. It was a tight game that came down to Kane missing his header and Firmino finishing his.

It’s not surprising to see the luck go to the team creating more chances. That’s the risk in sitting back.

[SuperMatt18]

Le sigh.

It’s not a classic display of it but still......Spurs are gonna Spurs.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

The high quality chances were pretty similar, and Liverpool had way more medium quality chances. It was a tight game that came down to Kane missing his header and Firmino finishing his.

It’s not surprising to see the luck go to the team creating more chances. That’s the risk in sitting back.

I don't know who created more chances. I mean between the Kane header and Bergwijn had two chances, one of which was off the post, maybe we had more chances?

I didn't think that Liverpool had that many good shots on Lloris though. I know that Mane put one over the bar, and I think Salah and someone else had shots that went right at Lloris, but they weren't overly threatening?

[d_phaneuf]

The high quality chances weren't close

Spurs had 4 basically free shots on goal, and scored 1 with son

I dont think liverpool had a better chance than any of those, they scored off a fluke deflection and a corner

The amount of passes in the final 3rd are irrelevant, spurs played to counter liverpool and it worked, those chances go in more often than not

To say they played negative football or parked the bus is insane, everytime liverpool turned it over spurs flew forward

[d_phaneuf]

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

The high quality chances weren't close

Spurs had 4 basically free shots on goal, and scored 1 with son

I dont think liverpool had a better chance than any of those, they scored off a fluke deflection and a corner

The amount of passes in the final 3rd are irrelevant, spurs played to counter liverpool and it worked, those chances go in more often than not

To say they played negative football or parked the bus is insane, everytime liverpool turned it over spurs flew forward

Spurs played well, no doubt, I already said that. Had those two Bergwijn chances fallen to Kane or Son then this game might have ended in Spurs favour, or at least a draw. But the top teams don’t play with 20% possession and get doubled up on shots. It just leaves no room for error, you have to finish 50% or more of your chances and defend for your life all game.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

The high quality chances weren't close

Spurs had 4 basically free shots on goal, and scored 1 with son

I dont think liverpool had a better chance than any of those, they scored off a fluke deflection and a corner

The amount of passes in the final 3rd are irrelevant, spurs played to counter liverpool and it worked, those chances go in more often than not

To say they played negative football or parked the bus is insane, everytime liverpool turned it over spurs flew forward

Insane? You had 24% possession. What would you call that?

I dont like possession stats but when they're that far apart they tell a tale.

So what was Jose whinging to Klopp about after the final whistle?

Nobody got a freebie via VAR or anything. We got 2. You got 1.

[SuperMatt18]

Possession can be such a useless stat in Soccer.

Mane-Salah- Firminho are at their most deadly when they can catch you on the counter. Letting Liverpool hold possession in the midfield but not letting them get behind you is a valid tactic.

And for the most part it limited Liverpool’s quality and Spurs generated their own. Came down to finishing in the end, Firminho finished on a set piece and Spurs flubbed three Grade A sitters.

Good example that always stands out to me is Italy-Spain at the 2012 Euros.

In the group stage Italy played a 3-5-2 and just let Spain pass it around the midfield to the tune of 65% possession. Italy in the end though had the better chances and it finished a 1-1 draw.

Italy had some success playing a 4-1-3-2 the rest of the tournament and then decided to use that tactic against Spain in the final, playing for more possession and didn’t sit back against Spain. Spain just killed them on the counter in the game and they lost 4-0.

If the other team wants to try to use their pace on the counter (which Liverpool does) sometimes just letting them control the ball in the middle third can be a good way of neutralizing that. Modern day Catenaccio.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Locke

Insane? You had 24% possession. What would you call that?

I dont like possession stats but when they're that far apart they tell a tale.

So what was Jose whinging to Klopp about after the final whistle?

Nobody got a freebie via VAR or anything. We got 2. You got 1.

24% means nothing though without proper context, which the picture above showing the shooting locations shows.

They sat back, essentially let Liverpool create nothing but shots around the edge of the box, like SM said above, Liverpool's front 3, much like spurs, are.most dangerous with speed on the attack, the way spurs set up didn't let them do that

Spurs let Liverpool hold the ball on the outside, they didn't pressure, they only pushed for tackles once it got in the box.

Then once they forced a possession loss they flew forward right away, this is something they practice all the time, and what Mourinho's best Madrid teams were incredible at. It's not a fluke they are scoring so much on the counter.

Parking the bus is 10 men behind the ball with a striker up top, when the defense forces a turnover they hoof it up and pray, they don't have 5 players all sprinting forward. Everyone but hjojberg and the back 4 were in the Liverpool penalty box when spurs moved forward, and they didn't pass it around slowly, they attacked quickly.

So of course their possession stars will be low, but they created better chances. That's the risk/reward of playing that way.

Not saying Liverpool got dominated or it was a stolen win. Just that Mourinho's tactic worked, that's what I took issue with, he didn't park the bus or play defensive.

Some teams are built better to counter, some.to dominate possession.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

24% means nothing though without proper context, which the picture above showing the shooting locations shows.

They sat back, essentially let Liverpool create nothing but shots around the edge of the box, like SM said above, Liverpool's front 3, much like spurs, are.most dangerous with speed on the attack, the way spurs set up didn't let them do that

Spurs let Liverpool hold the ball on the outside, they didn't pressure, they only pushed for tackles once it got in the box.

Then once they forced a possession loss they flew forward right away, this is something they practice all the time, and what Mourinho's best Madrid teams were incredible at. It's not a fluke they are scoring so much on the counter.

Parking the bus is 10 men behind the ball with a striker up top, when the defense forces a turnover they hoof it up and pray, they don't have 5 players all sprinting forward. Everyone but hjojberg and the back 4 were in the Liverpool penalty box when spurs moved forward, and they didn't pass it around slowly, they attacked quickly.

So of course their possession stars will be low, but they created better chances. That's the risk/reward of playing that way.

Not saying Liverpool got dominated or it was a stolen win. Just that Mourinho's tactic worked, that's what I took issue with, he didn't park the bus or play defensive.

Some teams are built better to counter, some.to dominate possession.

Right and I respect that, but Mourinho and Spurs absolutely did play defensive. Thats exactly what they did.

Which is a good strategy when Liverpool's most creative players arent playing.

Overall I thought it was a good match. I'm glad it wasnt marred with any diving or cheap penalties.

That being said, I'm still texting mean jabs at Slava and Rube.

[Locke]

I know Klopp gets worked up on the touchline and in the dugouts, but if there is one person on Earth who should STFU about it because he is often just as guilty, it is Jose Mourinho.

[Cappy]

That loss hurt, just because we were the better team in the second half. I would say it was one of Spurs best performances this season. I didnt find the Liverpool attack that threatening. One fluke goal and another misread volley put it away.

While frustrating to watch Bergwjin miss those two chances, it was one of his more noticeable performances this season. His pace certainly helps the counter.

This "how can the spurs win with x%?!?" misses the point of how this team is designed to play. So far this season, it is working better than any possession-based strategies Chelsea, and the Manchesters have been able to muster against big six teams

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Locke

I know Klopp gets worked up on the touchline and in the dugouts, but if there is one person on Earth who should STFU about it because he is often just as guilty, it is Jose Mourinho.

Uh, no. Klopp somehow has this "nice guy" image in the press and to me it's all a facade. He should be held to account.

The guy is a serial whiner. He complains about the most ridiculous things, and is just seething when things don't go his way. Mourinho is absolutely right to call him out on that, because if the shoe was on the other foot we know Mourinho would be carded and punished.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

24% means nothing though without proper context, which the picture above showing the shooting locations shows.

They sat back, essentially let Liverpool create nothing but shots around the edge of the box, like SM said above, Liverpool's front 3, much like spurs, are.most dangerous with speed on the attack, the way spurs set up didn't let them do that

Spurs let Liverpool hold the ball on the outside, they didn't pressure, they only pushed for tackles once it got in the box.

Then once they forced a possession loss they flew forward right away, this is something they practice all the time, and what Mourinho's best Madrid teams were incredible at. It's not a fluke they are scoring so much on the counter.

Parking the bus is 10 men behind the ball with a striker up top, when the defense forces a turnover they hoof it up and pray, they don't have 5 players all sprinting forward. Everyone but hjojberg and the back 4 were in the Liverpool penalty box when spurs moved forward, and they didn't pass it around slowly, they attacked quickly.

So of course their possession stars will be low, but they created better chances. That's the risk/reward of playing that way.

Not saying Liverpool got dominated or it was a stolen win. Just that Mourinho's tactic worked, that's what I took issue with, he didn't park the bus or play defensive.

Some teams are built better to counter, some.to dominate possession.

Possession is like +/- in hockey. Its a fairly useless stat....until it gets wide enough.

Anyways, can we at least agree that today we are all Blades?

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Locke

Right and I respect that, but Mourinho and Spurs absolutely did play defensive. Thats exactly what they did.

Which is a good strategy when Liverpool's most creative players arent playing.

Overall I thought it was a good match. I'm glad it wasnt marred with any diving or cheap penalties.

That being said, I'm still texting mean jabs at Slava and Rube.

Most creative players?

If Liverpool were fully fit and had to play their best xi tomorrow

Isn't that 9 out of 11 that were out there?