Remembrance Day

[undercoverbrother]

Interesting article:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rem...aign-1.4823547

That ad campaign uses close-up images of veterans from the two world wars and more recent conflicts and urges Canadians to "step up" and remember veterans.

But many of the focus group participants had a problem with one line in the ad script: "We owe them everything we have as Canadians."

"There was a strong feeling that this was an overstatement: that is, unquestionably we owe veterans a great deal but not 'everything' – there have been many other forces at play that make Canada what it is today," the researchers wrote.

Some participants, they added, "perceived the ad to be more of a recruiting ad than an ad about remembrance."

The focus groups also criticized the ad for under-representing women in uniform.

A third ad —"Our Freedom" — showcased Canadians expressing gratitude for modern freedoms ("Thanks to them, I am free. Free to say what needs to be said") and ended with an plea to "remember those who fought for freedom" on Nov. 11.

Is the public moving away from Remembrance Day and/or their true understanding of it?

[btimbit]

Those are decent ads actually.

I'm extremely dissapointed people didn't even know the lines in the one are from 'In Flanders Fields' sure it was the third paragraph, more would probably recognize it if it was the first paragraph, but still. Every Canadian owes it to themselves to know it.

I'd say the biggest problem is people don't understand the scope of loss we've had. WW1 had almost 61 000 dead or missing and another 172 000 injured. 61k is like the entire city of Airdrie dissapearing. And considering Canada's population at the time was a million less than just Quebec is today that's an insane amount.

We don't do even close to enough for veterans. Theres no ad conceivable that puts into perspective what we owe the ones who didn't survive. People criticize these ads for feeling like a recruitment drive? Not sure about you guys but thinking of the poor souls that drowned to death in flooded artillery craters in northern France doesn't make me want to sign up. That would be the worst recruiting tool in history

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Is the public moving away from Remembrance Day and/or their true understanding of it?

Remembrance Day probably has less resonance as the number of Canadians who have veterans in their families gets smaller and smaller.

But I doubt there's ever been a consensus about what the 'true understanding' of it is. I know people who have always disliked Remembrance Day because they feel it glorifies war (not that I agree with them).

I do agree with the focus group comments that 'we owe them everything' is overstated and jingoistic. Veterans fought for our values and our interests. But whether it's the Germans, the North Koreans, or the Taliban we're talking about, I've never bought the narrative that we'd all be enslaved or dead if we didn't fight them. And I don't think we need to paint our history in such apocalyptic terms in order to support our armed forces and remember the sacrifices of soldiers.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

.

I do agree with the focus group comments that 'we owe them everything' is overstated and jingoistic. Veterans fought for our values and our interests. But whether it's the Germans, the North Koreans, or the Taliban we're talking about, I've never bought the narrative that we'd all be enslaved or dead if we didn't fight them. And I don't think we need to paint our history in such apocalyptic terms in order to support our armed forces and remember the sacrifices of soldiers.

This I do agree with. You can support the troops and appreciate the ones we lost in better ways. That line does seem a tad too American. Let's not go overboard and start cheering and clapping for every air force mail room clerk that shows up at at a football game.

For me at least, that's missing the point. Its not about cheering on and worshiping the soldiers it's about reconizing the sacrifices that are made.

[The Yen Man]

The first thought that came in my head after seeing that "We Owe Them Everything" ad was the Team America "America, Eff Yeah!" song. And that's not a good thing.

[Locke]

I find it particularly ironic that this comes from the current Federal Government that, despite claiming to owe Veterans 'everything' cant seem to manage to fit them in as a line-item in their budget.

"We owe them everything! Except money....they cant have that. Everything else though..."

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Locke

I find it particularly ironic that this comes from the current Federal Government that, despite claiming to owe Veterans 'everything' cant seem to manage to fit them in as a line-item in their budget.

"We owe them everything! Except money....they cant have that. Everything else though..."

The liberals re-opened the veterans affairs office in NS that the conservatives closed. So, there's that I guess?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Locke

I find it particularly ironic that this comes from the current Federal Government that, despite claiming to owe Veterans 'everything' cant seem to manage to fit them in as a line-item in their budget.

"We owe them everything! Except money....they cant have that. Everything else though..."

Locke. Not everything is an opportunity to whine about the liberal or NDP governments. Their job is to operate somewhat within their budget and you have to know militaries cost a fortune and Canadians don't value - and historically haven't really needed to - costly military spending since we're so closely allied with the USA.

Remembrance Day is partly about remembering/honouring our soldiers, but from a government's perspective, it's a huge marketing drive to attract young people to the military. There is nothing ironic about marketing Remembrance Day by venerating the military - they want people to join that are attracted to being part of that tradition.

It's a win-win for the government. They get to broadcast their national pride and veterans really do expect (and deserve) that in addition to attracting people that want to be part of the military. It's tacky to criticize them on this IMO. They need to attract people and they are expected to pay their tribute to past soldiers - there is nothing here to be partisan about.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Locke. Not everything is an opportunity to whine about the liberal or NDP governments. Their job is to operate somewhat within their budget and you have to know militaries cost a fortune and Canadians don't value - and historically haven't really needed to - costly military spending since we're so closely allied with the USA.

Remembrance Day is partly about remembering/honouring our soldiers, but from a government's perspective, it's a huge marketing drive to attract young people to the military. There is nothing ironic about marketing Remembrance Day by venerating the military - they want people to join that are attracted to being part of that tradition.

It's a win-win for the government. They get to broadcast their national pride and veterans really do expect (and deserve) that in addition to attracting people that want to be part of the military. It's tacky to criticize them on this IMO. They need to attract people and they are expected to pay their tribute to past soldiers - there is nothing here to be partisan about.

I agree and disagree.

I agree that we need to attract qualified individuals into our Armed Forces, but I disagree that the Government isnt pandering.

Armed Forces = Easy Votes.

Support the Troops!

The fact of the matter though is that they're not putting their money where their mouth is.

They want to attract people into the Military? There are ways of doing it and pure BS 'lip-service' isnt it.

You want to know why the vast majority of people go into the Military? Usually because a family member was a part of it. Its a tradition.

But if you treat that family member like dirt afterwards its going to sour the taste.

Canada doesnt have to be on the front-lines of defending Global Freedom abroad. We dont have the resources and we dont have the clout. If we want people to willingly join our armed forces we have to stop treating our veterans like an bad rash.

And honestly, any veteran that sees this ad campaign is probably rolling their eyes at the BS of it.

[FlamesAddiction]

The only complaint I would have is that none of the soldiers are women. That is a legitimate complaint.

As far as "owing them everything", I don't think it needs to taken so literally. It's a common saying or colloquialism. It's nothing to get bent out of shape over IMO. It's really a petty thing to worry about.

Also, another thing to keep in mind is that the tribute we pay isn't just for those who served, but for their families. I especially feel sorry for the kids who often won't see a parent for months at a time not knowing if they are safe. Or having to move around and change schools so much, that sort of thing. I would like to think the honour and respect we give helps the family accept the burden.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Locke

I find it particularly ironic that this comes from the current Federal Government that, despite claiming to owe Veterans 'everything' cant seem to manage to fit them in as a line-item in their budget.

"We owe them everything! Except money....they cant have that. Everything else though..."

They're just keeping up with a age old government tradition. Its not just a Trudeau thing or even a liberal thing

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The only complaint I would have is that none of the soldiers are women. That is a legitimate complaint.
As far as "owing them everything",

I'd love to see Canadian combat deaths from confederation (or even colonial times) to present to see if there is even a dozen women, let alone a statistical percentage worth portraying that have died on the front lines.

Sure they play a combat role now and have had an important role in support through history, but if its an ad about giving everything, women are not the ones you should be picturing.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I'd love to see Canadian combat deaths from confederation (or even colonial times) to present to see if there is even a dozen women, let alone a statistical percentage worth portraying that have died on the front lines.

Sure they play a combat role now and have had an important role in support through history, but if its an ad about giving everything, women are not the ones you should be picturing.

The no woman in combat thing is historically accurate sure, but the way things are in this day and age it would be smart to put in a Nichola Goddard type at least.

There has been quite a few over the years though. Mostly Nurses after field hospitals get hit by artillery or something.

Edit

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/rememb...?filterYr=1915

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The only complaint I would have is that none of the soldiers are women. That is a legitimate complaint.

As far as "owing them everything", I don't think it needs to taken so literally. It's a common saying or colloquialism. It's nothing to get bent out of shape over IMO. It's really a petty thing to worry about.

Also, another thing to keep in mind is that the tribute we pay isn't just for those who served, but for their families. I especially feel sorry for the kids who often won't see a parent for months at a time not knowing if they are safe. Or having to move around and change schools so much, that sort of thing. I would like to think the honour and respect we give helps the family accept the burden.

That's odd, I took the last individual to be female, from the facial features. The soldier next to the "we own them everything..." looks very female to me.


I know a lot of good female soldiers, kick as ####ers that took no #### and were good at their job, be that infantry or clerk.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Locke. Not everything is an opportunity to whine about the liberal or NDP governments. Their job is to operate somewhat within their budget and you have to know militaries cost a fortune and Canadians don't value - and historically haven't really needed to - costly military spending since we're so closely allied with the USA.
.

Worst reason ever.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Worst reason ever.

Is it? We're geographically too big with a population too small to ever be able to defend ourselves. We need a super strong ally to protect us. Since we've always had one, it make sense to let them take on most of the burden since they've built up a huge army already. Say we doubled our spending. Or tripled it. Or quintupled it. We still couldn't defend ourselves. I think we should spend as little as they'll let us get away with and commiserate with what we can afford and in line with what it takes to outfit our army so it's as competent - and our soldiers are as fairly compensated - as other nations that are our size.

On another note, you hear how Americans recruits are tricked by recruiters with bait-and-switch tactics...does that happen in Canada as well or does the compensation, lifestyle, etc. get accurately laid out so young people know exactly what they're signing up for when they join our military?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Is it? We're geographically too big with a population too small to ever be able to defend ourselves. We need a super strong ally to protect us. Since we've always had one, it make sense to let them take on most of the burden since they've built up a huge army already. Say we doubled our spending. Or tripled it. Or quintupled it. We still couldn't defend ourselves. I think we should spend as little as they'll let us get away with and commiserate with what we can afford and in line with what it takes to outfit our army so it's as competent - and our soldiers are as fairly compensated - as other nations that are our size.

Yes, yes it is. If you consider sovereignty an important issue, you should consider the ability to provide sufficient funding to your forces.

On another note, you hear how Americans recruits are tricked by recruiters with bait-and-switch tactics...does that happen in Canada as well or does the compensation, lifestyle, etc. get accurately laid out so young people know exactly what they're signing up for when they join our military?

So you mean do they show them a picture of someone stuffing a dick up someone's ass? (wait is the swear filter really letting that go through?)

I'm not sure, but I doubt it.

[Scornfire]

What's sufficient funding to protect ourselves without any aid from the states? How much would that number detract from our Health/Social Security and Education?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Scornfire

What's sufficient funding to protect ourselves without any aid from the states?

Not getting any aid and relying completely on the US are two different things. We struggle to service our coast lines for Search and Rescue.

How much would that number detract from our Health/Social Security and Education?

I don't have that answer.

[Scornfire]

I'm sorry, the way I read it, sovereignty implies total self sufficiency. And that's pretty specific, I'm all for funding that and a greater presence in the North, but that's not really what I think of when Military spending is being discussed