2021 Blue Jays Season Thread

[KootenayFlamesFan]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1445827269826646016

[Cali Panthers Fan]

^Not that surprising. The team exceeded expectations overall.

However, I wouldn't cry if they replaced Montoyo, but if they got rid of Pete Walker I'd be picketing in front of their head office. The guy is a major reason why the pitching worked out at all this year. He really got a lot out of Ray and Matz especially after previous seasons where they were just okay.

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

https://twitter.com/user/status/1445827269826646016

I have no problem with this. Rivera still isn't a great 3B coach but he is very valuable as IF coach.

[Roof-Daddy]

I think they should replace the hitting coach.

They weren't quite #1 in all the major team hitting categories.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

If Biggio is healthy and can produce like the 800 OPS bat he had been prior to this year than you have a guy who is well above average that you can play at 2nd or 3rd, plus the versatility to use elsewhere.

It will be interesting to see how many teams try and find a Ray or Gausman who has 2 plus pitches, and get those guys to just throw those 95% of the time and try and get 150 innings and maybe more if things work out. So will teams be willing to give money and term to guys who succeeded at it this year, or will they look for darts to throw at the board that cost less and hope something sticks?

I’ve personally theorized on here as of late that the Jays will be forced to go for veteran arms next. Simply put, they can’t do long term deals with free agent pitchers with the next generation about to get paid large. So you go for vets who have been proven, but the costs are up front as they’re not realistically looking for 5 year deals. Then you fill in with a couple guys looking for short rebounds like Ray did. I think the roster will look older by virtue of these three or so signings. With the amount of games lost because of the bullpen, that’s my first concern. But if you can get another #2 who can go long, like Scherzer, then my bullpen concern becomes less with a couple proven guys back there.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by fleury

I’ve personally theorized on here as of late that the Jays will be forced to go for veteran arms next. Simply put, they can’t do long term deals with free agent pitchers with the next generation about to get paid large. So you go for vets who have been proven, but the costs are up front as they’re not realistically looking for 5 year deals. Then you fill in with a couple guys looking for short rebounds like Ray did. I think the roster will look older by virtue of these three or so signings. With the amount of games lost because of the bullpen, that’s my first concern. But if you can get another #2 who can go long, like Scherzer, then my bullpen concern becomes less with a couple proven guys back there.

Why do you think Max is a #2? He was still one of the 10 best pitchers in all of baseball. His ERA+ is actually 2nd in all of MLB- ahead of Ray


If he wanted to come to Toronto the term would be perfect. Alas he will be back with the Dodgers or Yankees next year

[Roof-Daddy]

Bauer's future is in question, as is Kershaw's.

I will be shocked if Scherzer doesn't re-sign with the Dodgers.

[Enoch Root]

Roy Kent? No, as Flames_Fan_Down_Under said, he's Jamie Tartt

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Bauer's future is in question, as is Kershaw's.

I will be shocked if Scherzer doesn't re-sign with the Dodgers.

With the package of picks they gave up for him and turner you would think they would probably want to re-sign at least one of them.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Roy Kent? No, as Flames_Fan_Down_Under said, he's Jamie Tartt

What am I missing . When was Donaldson anything other then a good teammate ?

He soured of the Jays treatment of his injury and the medical staff . He isn’t the only player to have that criticism

Where have other players ever had a problem with him?

I honestly must be missing something. Where is all this bad clubhouse coming from ? Or people just annoyed by his last season and the injuries

This sure doesn’t sound like Tartt

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/ra...had-ever-seen/

Heres players after the trade

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/ml...osh-donaldson/

JD is an ass. But its usually towards the opponent.

https://www.sportscasting.com/most-h...he-game-today/

He isnt a bad clubhouse guy. He is a pest and hates to loose and hates his opposition. This team needs a bit of that when you're going up against the Yankees and Sox

We need a killer attitude. Everyone complained all year that we folded late in games and didnt have a killer attitude.

JD is an assassin. Hell remedy that problem.

[Kasi]

When he bullied Pompey, when players ripped him years after for him being bad in the clubhouse (Liam Hendricks) He is a hothead and an ass and he’s not being brought back here. Stroman maybe but not Donaldson.

Edit: plus he has a 20 million dollar salary which really makes bringing him here problematic.

[bluejays]

I guess Donaldson would work if you platoon Groshans and him for playing time at 3rd, but...salary. Do we want to spend that money on him when Espinal isn't that much worse off than a year older Donaldson? Meh, I don't think it'll happen. Bulk up the pitching staff as much as you can and use Grichuk with someone else for position help if anything. This team is a solid pitching staff from a championship contender, I think that's obvious to most after the amount of games the RP's played in losing over that mid summer stretch.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Kasi

When he bullied Pompey, when players ripped him years after for him being bad in the clubhouse (Liam Hendricks) He is a hothead and an ass and he’s not being brought back here. Stroman maybe but not Donaldson.

Edit: plus he has a 20 million dollar salary which really makes bringing him here problematic.

If the Jays were to trade for Donaldson it would not be for the full hit, and I wouldn't be surprised if Grichuk also went the other way.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Kasi

When he bullied Pompey, when players ripped him years after for him being bad in the clubhouse (Liam Hendricks) He is a hothead and an ass and he’s not being brought back here. Stroman maybe but not Donaldson.

Edit: plus he has a 20 million dollar salary which really makes bringing him here problematic.

Liam Hendricks.... When he was on the White Sox.... And JD picked a fight with his teamate Giolito about cheating... which MLB has now cracked down on. Hendricks never said a word until that moment. At least fact check

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/wh...josh-donaldson

"And Hendriks is in good company at this exact moment, the entire South Side joining in that opinion after Donaldson, now playing for the division-rival Minnesota Twins, made himself Public Enemy No. 1 by going after staff ace Lucas Giolito and beloved former manager and TV analyst Ozzie Guillén during a lengthy pregame media session Wednesday."

Yeah..... Great example...A player on a new team sticking up for his new teamates and saying he "Didn't like the guy - and giving a vague statement, and I quote "But I saw behind the curtain too much, and I'm not a fan "

Honestly - Any actual sources/articles of Jays players when on the team not liking him? I can not find one.

And the 20 mil becomes 10 mil NET if you send Grichuk the other way - Which I said.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by fleury

I guess Donaldson would work if you platoon Groshans and him for playing time at 3rd, but...salary. Do we want to spend that money on him when Espinal isn't that much worse off than a year older Donaldson? Meh, I don't think it'll happen. Bulk up the pitching staff as much as you can and use Grichuk with someone else for position help if anything. This team is a solid pitching staff from a championship contender, I think that's obvious to most after the amount of games the RP's played in losing over that mid summer stretch.

Epsinal would platoon at 3rd. We need a DH, 2B and 3B. We have Espinol, Biggio, Grichuk atm for those 3 spots.

I dont think you realize how much $$ the Jays have to spend. Were talking 90M to get to their 2015 level for next year. (Some will get eaten for arbitration - Especally Berrios)

They could literally sign 2 aces and Donaldson and still have $$ to spare

Term is the issue more then $$. You want money free in 3 years.

And look.... That's when JD comes off the books. And I already said - Sending Grichuk the other way so it's 10 million different for 2 years

Donaldson almost replaces/helps offset Siemen's production for 10 million Net. You then have Biggio, Groshans and Espinol to platoon 3rd and 2nd. Donaldson DH's when needed.

You then have about 60 million for pitching

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Epsinal would platoon at 3rd. We need a DH, 2B and 3B. We have Espinol, Biggio, Grichuk atm for those 3 spots.

I dont think you realize how much $$ the Jays have to spend. Were talking 90M to get to their 2015 level for next year. (Some will get eaten for arbitration - Especally Berrios)

They could literally sign 2 aces and Donaldson and still have $$ to spare

Term is the issue more then $$. You want money free in 3 years.

And look.... That's when JD comes off the books. And I already said - Sending Grichuk the other way so it's 10 million different for 2 years

Donaldson almost replaces/helps offset Siemen's production for 10 million Net. You then have Biggio, Groshans and Espinol to platoon 3rd and 2nd. Donaldson DH's when needed.

You then have about 60 million for pitching

I don't think spending money at that position is wise, personally. He's going to be injured 1/3rd of the season, that's more or less a given. Why give up an asset in Grichuk when you don't need that position filled? Granted there are plenty of questions about what Biggio will show up, but is Biggio at 2nd, and Espinol as your everyday 3rd, that bad? What is Donaldson expected to bring at this point? As for DH, they could sign a specialist or just give the reins to Kirk. It's not about spending to the 2015 level. It's about spending money the right way. I don't think they have to go that route personally.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by fleury

I don't think spending money at that position is wise, personally. He's going to be injured 1/3rd of the season, that's more or less a given. Why give up an asset in Grichuk when you don't need that position filled? Granted there are plenty of questions about what Biggio will show up, but is Biggio at 2nd, and Espinol as your everyday 3rd, that bad? What is Donaldson expected to bring at this point? As for DH, they could sign a specialist or just give the reins to Kirk. It's not about spending to the 2015 level. It's about spending money the right way. I don't think they have to go that route personally.

I look at Grichuk as a negative asset costing us 10m at a position we are loaded at

Donaldson played 135 games this year . Why are we saying he will miss 1/3 of the games ? He brings a .850 ops and had periferal stats that say he was actually better

And he still plays a + D at 3rd

I prefer knowing I can put Espinol at 2nd, Donaldson at 3rd and super utility Biggio while rotating DH then having Grichuk and the other OF at DH and hoping Biggio and Espinol both stay healthy and can even try to put a dent in Siemens offensive loss

We need to somewhat replace 45 Hrs and 100 RBIs. Grichuk , Espinol and Biggio combined don’t unless we believe first 40 game Grichuk is the real deal and not last 100 games Grichuk where he was demoted to 9th hitter

—- if we believe Groshans can step right into a starter role it is a different story as then you have your full time 3B and run with Espinol and Biggio at 2nd and rotating guys out for DH —— Then I agree having Donaldson as DH is silly . I’m not sure Groshans is there yet

[bluejays]

Yeah, I don't think Groshans is there yet either from the sounds of it. I'm also not sure they want to give him the opportunity off the top to be the everyday guy either. Agreed about Grichuk being a negative asset. I'm sure there are plenty of teams who will line up to turn around his potential though, so even though I look down upon him, I'm not sure that's the perception around. You do have a fair argument all around, though for me, all energy is focused on pitching first priority. Anything else is gravy.

[browna]

For playoffs, I think there should be:

An extra wildcard

Two byes into the DS per league for top 2 records.

From there, the 1 division winner and 3 wildcards get ranked based on record. 1 plays 4, 2 plays 3.
2 games (or less) played in those wild card playoffs. The lower seed in each of those pairings has to win both of the 2 games to advance while the higher seed just 1 of them (I think it's similar in Korea).


So in the NL, it would mean the Giants and Brewers in the NLDS.
Then the Braves, (NL East) Dodgers Cardinals and Reds would be in.
Dodgers would play Reds, Braves play Cardinals based on records. Braves and Reds would have to win both/2 games to advance, Dodgers and Cardinals just one.

In AL, Rays and Astros go through. White Sox, Red Sox, Yanks and Jays would be teams also in.
White Sox plays Jays, Yanks play Red Sox. Jays and Yanks would have to win both/2 to advance where White Sox and Red Sox have to win just one game.

In both leagues, the DS opponents are again ranked by record after the wild card playoffs.

So,
It adds an extra wildcard for each league to have a further race.

It means winning a division with an average compared to other teams records in the playoffs (Braves) doesn't advance you to the DS.

It means a team like the Dodgers who win 105 games doesn't get punted in a 1 game playoff, they'd have to lose 2 out of 2 vs a lesser opponent.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I look at Grichuk as a negative asset costing us 10m at a position we are loaded at

Donaldson played 135 games this year . Why are we saying he will miss 1/3 of the games ? He brings a .850 ops and had periferal stats that say he was actually better

And he still plays a + D at 3rd

I prefer knowing I can put Espinol at 2nd, Donaldson at 3rd and super utility Biggio while rotating DH then having Grichuk and the other OF at DH and hoping Biggio and Espinol both stay healthy and can even try to put a dent in Siemens offensive loss

We need to somewhat replace 45 Hrs and 100 RBIs. Grichuk , Espinol and Biggio combined don’t unless we believe first 40 game Grichuk is the real deal and not last 100 games Grichuk where he was demoted to 9th hitter

—- if we believe Groshans can step right into a starter role it is a different story as then you have your full time 3B and run with Espinol and Biggio at 2nd and rotating guys out for DH —— Then I agree having Donaldson as DH is silly . I’m not sure Groshans is there yet

While the bolded is definitely true, that is not a justification for Donaldson.