The writers have said multiple times that the overarching theme of the show is that it’s about “the things love makes you do” — and that sometimes those things aren’t pretty.
We see that on multiple occasions, whether it’s the beautiful relationship in episode three, Joel taking Ellie because it was Tess’s dying wish, Ellie picking Joel to continue the journey even when Tommy was a more logical decision, Marlene ignoring the lie when Ellie’s mom died.
And then in the final episode we get Joel choosing to kill off the Fireflies to save Ellie and Ellie’s desire to turn her friend’s death into something meaningful. Love, it ain’t always pretty.
To argue Joel didn’t love Ellie is missing the creator’s point completely.
I think the point is that the show didn't do a very good job of depicting Joel's intentions.
He just came across as a total psycho in that last episode. There were multiple points where he killed defenceless guards who were already surrendering and disabled. There was no internal debate about what was wrong/right.
And again, that talk he had with Ellie about her reminding him of his daughter was extremely creepy.
None of this may have been the creators intent, but they added to the source material to push the envelopes and it backfired and instead took the punch out of the storyline. What made the original story good wasn't a cool shoot out scene filled with violence, it was the moral debate.
Still a great show overall, they must missed the mark a bit with the ending.
Did anyone else get Jurassic Park vibes during the giraffe scene?
I was 1/2 expecting the giraffe to sneeze snot all over her.
I did not play the games, but was entertained by the series. I was looking forward to watching it every Sunday night, and that is good enough for me. Mission accomplished, HBO!
Yeah I think if it had been a velociraptor instead of giraffe, and its presence somehow opened a portal to Isla Nublar (so Joel could shoot all the dinosaurs also), it would have been even more impactful.
The zoo scene blew me away when I played the game, and I think I went through it twice just to breathe it in. And I remember Ellie and Joel trotting off into the sunset on horseback... I'm not sure why they switched it to a vehicle in the show (but I mean it's a minor detail, and really, who cares?)
No, they leave the Firefly hospital in a car. The whole finale sequence in the show is pretty much 1-for-1 from the game
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The HBO drama's first six episodes have racked up a bigger audience than the 'Game of Thrones' prequel, and Sunday's finale hit a premiere night high.
According to HBO, The Last of Us’ first six episodes are averaging 30.4 million viewers since the Jan. 15 premiere, with the debut episode closing in on 40 million viewers.
The HBO drama's first six episodes have racked up a bigger audience than the 'Game of Thrones' prequel, and Sunday's finale hit a premiere night high.
According to HBO, The Last of Us’ first six episodes are averaging 30.4 million viewers since the Jan. 15 premiere, with the debut episode closing in on 40 million viewers.
Hopefully this means we get a few more episodes in season 2, and it doesn't feel as rushed as the first one did. If they had added some of the infected battles between the cannibal camp and the hospital I think it would have gone a long way to showing the strengthening bond between Joel and Ellie, and giving the story a bit of time to breathe
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Joel, and most of the people who are alive wouldn't be around long enough to see the changes that immunity would bring on a larger scale, as moving the vaccine around a world that's highly unnavigable and full of hostile groups would be a logistical nightmare. And thats assuming that they succeed at extracting a useful sample and synthesizing the vax/antidote, which isn't exactly a slam dunk given that allegedly one guy there had the credentials to make it happen. Then there's the assumption that military QZs would willingly accept a cure from a group of people they've considered terrorists for years. It's pretty much a guarantee that they would just shoot them down. And would civilization even be able to go back to how it was given all the murder and other immoral acts people had committed over the years just to survive?
There are so many possible hitches along the way that any loving parent would be crazy to not want to fight for their child's life before trusting a rag tag group's highly idealistic proposal.
Yeah. I mean, if Covid has taught us anything, all you have to do is make the vaccine, and once you do it's super easy to get everyone in the world vaccinated and you can end the virus.
Guaranteed it would work, be 100% effective, and there wouldn't be any mis-information or ulterior motives going on.
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I didn't play the game (well, all the way through) and I really enjoyed the first season. I bought everything about the finale and look forward to moral ambiguity being a big part of what we'll see next season and beyond.
My only complaint echoes what other people have said: it sure could have used an extra episode or two to help that finale hit harder. We'll probably see some flashbacks and development for both these characters that will help to round out Joel's motivations and detachment, but it would have been better served to have that with some extra screen time this year.
Either way I'm hooked, HBO. Great job.
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I didn't play the game (well, all the way through) and I really enjoyed the first season. I bought everything about the finale and look forward to moral ambiguity being a big part of what we'll see next season and beyond.
My only complaint echoes what other people have said: it sure could have used an extra episode or two to help that finale hit harder. We'll probably see some flashbacks and development for both these characters that will help to round out Joel's motivations and detachment, but it would have been better served to have that with some extra screen time this year.
Either way I'm hooked, HBO. Great job.
HBO cut the episode length for the finale, which is very unusual. They could have easily spent an extra 5-10 minutes of low budget time building up/explaining Joel's motivations for his killing spree.
I think the point is that the show didn't do a very good job of depicting Joel's intentions.
He just came across as a total psycho in that last episode. There were multiple points where he killed defenceless guards who were already surrendering and disabled. There was no internal debate about what was wrong/right.
And again, that talk he had with Ellie about her reminding him of his daughter was extremely creepy.
None of this may have been the creators intent, but they added to the source material to push the envelopes and it backfired and instead took the punch out of the storyline. What made the original story good wasn't a cool shoot out scene filled with violence, it was the moral debate.
Still a great show overall, they must missed the mark a bit with the ending.
Well yeah, that’s the point. He’s taking out guards that have already surrendered because he’s not taking any chances of not getting to Ellie. Same reason why he takes out Marlene. “You’ll just come after her”.
He’s not supposed to be having an internal debate. His mind was made up the moment Marlene told him Ellie would die. I’m not sure what you’re referencing from the game because both the show and the game have almost the exact same ending.
Joel disassociates from himself and becomes hyper violent out of his love for Ellie.
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I don’t remember the game having a moral debate. You go in and mow down a building full of people and the entire time it feels like the right thing to do.
It was definitely debatable. The game was intended to get you to bond with Ellie as Joel did, though, so it's understandable that a lot of people just took his side immediately, or convinced themselves pretty easily that murdering everyone and taking away the world's chance at some sense of normalcy was the way to go. "Well, they didn't even know if it would work! And she deserves to make the choice for herself! And who knows if you'd even be able to distribute the cure if it did work!"
To quote a character from a video game, "yeah, you keep telling yourself that bull####."
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It's up to the player, whether they want to have their own personal moral debate about what they're doing. You're forced into the path that Joel has 'chosen', and ultimately can't deviate from it. If you feel strong enough about Joel mowing down the Fireflies to save Ellie not being morally justifiable... I guess you'd just stop playing the game.
I for one took the game to completion without much compunction about it, but after the final scene definitely thought long about how ####ty Joel left things, having killed everybody and lied to Ellie.
Spoiler!
I recently completed Part II, and I won't lie: I didn't even want to finish the game's final conflict. I think that's why, at least in part, the second game was received somewhat controversially. Ellie makes regrettable decisions that I as player did not want to carry out.
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To quote a character from a video game, "yeah, you keep telling yourself that bull####."
Quote:
Originally Posted by timun
I for one took the game to completion without much compunction about it, but after the final scene definitely thought long about how ####ty Joel left things, having killed everybody and lied to Ellie.
As Tess says in the game, "Guess what, we're ####ty people, Joel. It's been that way for a long time."
And in the show, "Joel and I aren't good people. We're doing this for us."
Like the poor girl who lost a father due to Joel, there are families and friends who suffer the loss from the actions of others. There consequences to running around killing people and lying to loved ones.
Joel made the decision any parent would make. In fact, I remember reading that when they tested the game with audiences almost everyone who was a parent sided with Joel.
Joel made the decision any parent would make. In fact, I remember reading that when they tested the game with audiences almost everyone who was a parent sided with Joel.
They talk about this in the companion podcast.
Of the play testers, those who were not parents were 50/50 with Joel.
Those who WERE parents were 100% in support of Joel, with no exceptions.
Yeah. I mean, if Covid has taught us anything, all you have to do is make the vaccine, and once you do it's super easy to get everyone in the world vaccinated and you can end the virus.
Guaranteed it would work, be 100% effective, and there wouldn't be any mis-information or ulterior motives going on.
This also isn't a broken post-apocalyptic society run by lawless rogue communities, cults and military government cells where the development of a vaccine rides solely on one doctor who is likely 20 years out of a regular/regulated practice.
But nice trojan horse to try and equate a video game world with reality and out yourself as a ninny living on conspiracy island.
Last edited by TrentCrimmIndependent; 03-14-2023 at 03:05 PM.
