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View Poll Results: Which mayoral candidate do you support in the 2017 municipal election?
Jason Achtymichuk (Jason GoGo) 2 0.39%
Andre Chabot 15 2.91%
Brent Chisholm 0 0%
Emile Gabriel 0 0%
Larry Heather 3 0.58%
David Lapp 0 0%
Naheed Nenshi 369 71.51%
Curtis Olson 0 0%
Bill Smith 122 23.64%
Stan (the Man) Waciak 5 0.97%
Voters: 516. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-12-2017, 09:46 AM   #1981
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There's no "if". There's some right in the Metro article.

So like 3 tweets between September 3 and yesterday that have a couple comments and been retweeted exactly 1 time is what the fuss is about?

On one hand, I really hope there isn't a lot more crap like this out there, on the other hand I was really expecting there to be a ton more of this with actual traction based on Nenshi's speech.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:50 AM   #1982
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Keep your US politics drivel in that thread Clay. Other things worthwhile to discuss here
Weren't you the guy that was complaining about people demeaning other posters instead of debating the issues?
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:53 AM   #1983
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I do not believe that this is happening. The people working downtown for the CBE aren't smoking cigars on their golden thrones. Yes, teachers are struggling for funds in the classroom but it's not because of greedy administrators. Teachers are paid well and administrators are paid slightly more for their seniority.

The idea of a group of shadowy fat cats sucking up school funds is ridiculous. Every school board trustee knows that the budget has some administration fees. Lisa Davis is trying to paint herself as the solution to a problem that she invented (or at least exaggerated). It's classic populism. As others have mentioned, Patricia Bolger's history of working with the board and sending her own kids to public schools carries a lot more weight with me than the empty claim that 'administrators make too much money.'

I have 5 teachers in my family, including my wife and father, and I know a couple people who moved from being principles to administrators 10 years ago. I know that every one of them is trying their best to improve schooling for kids.
Given that I made no reference to 'shadowy fat cats', nor to cigars or thrones, I'm not sure exactly sure why you quoted me.

But, I'm glad you are informed on the choice you get to make. I have no idea whether Patricia Bolger is a better candidate than Lisa Davis. I just want someone in there who will address the incredible inefficiencies that plague the CBE. The slate seems prepared to tackle that, so I voted for Lisa Davis.

The fact is that the CBE spends a lot more per student on admin costs than the Catholic board does. The separate school board spends 76% of its funds in the classroom, while the CBE spends 66%.

10% out of a budget of $1.3 BILLION budget is a lot of money.

Not to mention that the CBE has over 2x more students than the Catholic board, so it should spend less per student on admin (there are usually cost efficiencies available to larger organizations).

Students in the CBE are falling behind the Catholic students (and other students across Alberta). The CBE's failure rate for grade 6 and 9 students in math is about 50% higher than the Catholic board's.

I just think it makes more sense to spend less money on administration and more on students. Given that is what the purpose of the school board is.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:04 AM   #1984
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Just a ridiculous assertion. People have a variety of reasons to send their votes somewhere other than Nenshi, none of which are based on his skin color nor his religious beliefs.
As I said earlier, thereís no sense in denying one as a way of proving the other. You can go ahead and say people have a variety of reasons, but itís naive to think that none of them involve race or religion. These situations arenít helped by pretending these things donít exist, by pretending that just because a Muslim Mayor was voted in twice that racism and bigotry is all gone. Howís the US look to you? A black president was voted in, twice, followed by a huge swell of racism and bigotry, and a president who embraced it. But they shouldíve been cured of their racism, right? Just because Obama was voted in twice and had high approval ratings?

All thatís required of us is that we stop discrediting every non-white person who talks about racism like their playing some sort of advantage. Itís embarrassing and something to be ashamed of.

Itís telling that there is a group of anti-Nenshi voters who feel like this is a personal affront to them, that instead of just saying ďYeah, I could see that, but my reasons are as follows...Ē they say ďNo, thatís not happening, or that doesnít matter, it doesnít!Ē Nenshi is talking about a very specific group of his detractors, and you all feel the need to make it general and act like heís speaking about every single one of you.

Yes, itís uncomfortable to know that youíre voting the same way as some racists and bigots are, but that doesnít mean anyone (including Nenshi himself, which heís made clear) believes youíre voting for the same reasons. Itís time to grow up, stop blaming the victim, and accept that the world is not as hunky dory as you pretend it is. Thatís how you move forward and understand. Not from a place of ignorance, but from a place of recognition.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:11 AM   #1985
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Given that I made no reference to 'shadowy fat cats', nor to cigars or thrones, I'm not sure exactly sure why you quoted me.

But, I'm glad you are informed on the choice you get to make. I have no idea whether Patricia Bolger is a better candidate than Lisa Davis. I just want someone in there who will address the incredible inefficiencies that plague the CBE. The slate seems prepared to tackle that, so I voted for Lisa Davis.

The fact is that the CBE spends a lot more per student on admin costs than the Catholic board does. The separate school board spends 76% of its funds in the classroom, while the CBE spends 66%.

10% out of a budget of $1.3 BILLION budget is a lot of money.

Not to mention that the CBE has over 2x more students than the Catholic board, so it should spend less per student on admin (there are usually cost efficiencies available to larger organizations).

Students in the CBE are falling behind the Catholic students (and other students across Alberta). The CBE's failure rate for grade 6 and 9 students in math is about 50% higher than the Catholic board's.

I just think it makes more sense to spend less money on administration and more on students. Given that is what the purpose of the school board is.
You are implying that the administrative staff are making more money and providing less value than they should be. That's what it means to be a fat cat. Then you link two articles which both quote Lisa Davis. You're trying to defend a ridiculous claim by citing the same person making other ridiculous claims.

When I read that herald article, I conclude that Lisa Davis is trying to say that educational support staff are a part of the highly paid administration. She and her group are saying that he catholic board spends less money on that support group and therefore less on administration. That's dumb. Support staff are critical in schools and contribute directly in the classroom. Removing support staff makes education worse for the kids who need it.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:13 AM   #1986
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https://twitter.com/CBCFletch/status/918509264674672640

This is not going to be pretty for Ward.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:15 AM   #1987
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Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen View Post
So like 3 tweets between September 3 and yesterday that have a couple comments and been retweeted exactly 1 time is what the fuss is about?

On one hand, I really hope there isn't a lot more crap like this out there, on the other hand I was really expecting there to be a ton more of this with actual traction based on Nenshi's speech.
Oh come on, just because there's only 3 tweets in the article doesn't mean that's all there is.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:18 AM   #1988
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https://twitter.com/CBCFletch/status/918509264674672640

This is not going to be pretty for Ward.
Holy ####. That is awful. I hope his campaign is frantically trying to track down a celebrated New York artist named "Johnny Ju"...
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:20 AM   #1989
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Holy ####. That is awful. I hope his campaign is frantically trying to track down a celebrated New York artist named "Johnny Ju"...
He should resign, drop out. That's just completely unacceptable.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:21 AM   #1990
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https://twitter.com/CBCFletch/status/918509264674672640

This is not going to be pretty for Ward.
Friendly reminder that Ward Sutherland is the guy that mimed knifing Druh Farrell as well.

Don't know what the polls look like in his ward but hopefully he's on his way out.
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...olleagues-back
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:22 AM   #1991
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As I said earlier, thereís no sense in denying one as a way of proving the other. You can go ahead and say people have a variety of reasons, but itís naive to think that none of them involve race or religion. These situations arenít helped by pretending these things donít exist, by pretending that just because a Muslim Mayor was voted in twice that racism and bigotry is all gone. Howís the US look to you? A black president was voted in, twice, followed by a huge swell of racism and bigotry, and a president who embraced it. But they shouldíve been cured of their racism, right? Just because Obama was voted in twice and had high approval ratings?

All thatís required of us is that we stop discrediting every non-white person who talks about racism like their playing some sort of advantage. Itís embarrassing and something to be ashamed of.

Itís telling that there is a group of anti-Nenshi voters who feel like this is a personal affront to them, that instead of just saying ďYeah, I could see that, but my reasons are as follows...Ē they say ďNo, thatís not happening, or that doesnít matter, it doesnít!Ē Nenshi is talking about a very specific group of his detractors, and you all feel the need to make it general and act like heís speaking about every single one of you.

Yes, itís uncomfortable to know that youíre voting the same way as some racists and bigots are, but that doesnít mean anyone (including Nenshi himself, which heís made clear) believes youíre voting for the same reasons. Itís time to grow up, stop blaming the victim, and accept that the world is not as hunky dory as you pretend it is. Thatís how you move forward and understand. Not from a place of ignorance, but from a place of recognition.
This point is underscored in Malcolm Gladwells podcast ďRevisionist HistoryĒ. I think itís episode 1 of season 1 actually but could be wrong. Basically states that sexist / racist views often go through a cycle where youíll have a breakthrough like a black president or woman thatís done something significant in a manís world. From that point on people will cite themselves as non-racist or non- sexist, etc. because ďlook we hired that black guy onceĒ ďor gave credit to a woman in that (specific context) onceĒ.

His point was that typically after these events we see a return to norm of sexist or racist behaviours that are thus justified based on these previous events. He cited several examples and Trumpís election is just another one. Is Nenshi at risk due to this same mentality at play in Calgary? Itís not impossible.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:22 AM   #1992
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You are implying that the administrative staff are making more money and providing less value than they should be. That's what it means to be a fat cat. Then you link two articles which both quote Lisa Davis. You're trying to defend a ridiculous claim by citing the same person making other ridiculous claims.

When I read that herald article, I conclude that Lisa Davis is trying to say that educational support staff are a part of the highly paid administration. She and her group are saying that he catholic board spends less money on that support group and therefore less on administration. That's dumb. Support staff are critical in schools and contribute directly in the classroom. Removing support staff makes education worse for the kids who need it.
Boy, you sure seem intent on putting words in my mouth.

I didn't imply that admin staff are overpaid. I don't know why CBE's admin costs are so much higher than the Catholic board's ("CSSB"). It could be because they pay more, but it could also be because they have more administrators per capita than the CSSB. It could even be because they insisted on renting a downtown office building for their admin staff at an exorbitant rate.

You are attacking me because I provided sources for my information. I didn't quote Lisa Davis at all. I simply took the relevant facts from the articles. If you can dispute them, then please do. I don't profess to know everything, and I'm happy to be educated.

Are you saying that the CBE doesn't spend 40% more on admin costs compared to the CSSB (34% vs 24%)? Do you have any source for that claim?

Are you saying that CBE students aren't performing worse than CSSB students? Do you have a source for that claim?

As I already said, I'm not trying to convince you who to vote for, I'm just re-explaining what I said in my original post (which you seem to have deliberately misread to suit your narrative). Just stop trying to saddle me with your imaginary straw man argument.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:22 AM   #1993
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Friendly reminder that Ward Sutherland is the guy that mimed knifing Druh Farrell as well.

Don't know what the polls look like in his ward but hopefully he's on his way out.
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...olleagues-back
Prior to this, he was a mortal lock, so much so that before I realized I actually wasn't in his ward I wasn't even really paying attention, and was entirely focused on the mayoral race.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:26 AM   #1994
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https://twitter.com/CBCFletch/status/918509264674672640

This is not going to be pretty for Ward.
Holy....




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Holy ####. That is awful. I hope his campaign is frantically trying to track down a celebrated New York artist named "Johnny Ju"...

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Old 10-12-2017, 10:30 AM   #1995
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Prior to this, he was a mortal lock, so much so that before I realized I actually wasn't in his ward I wasn't even really paying attention, and was entirely focused on the mayoral race.
I suspect he's still a mortal lock. His (and my) ward has a lot of older, middle-class, conservative folks. The competition for ward 1 is a lady who looks like she's 13 years old, a Snidely Whiplash wannabe hipster (in appearance at least), an thickly-accented Indian who doesn't seem to have a platform and another guy who has almost no presence and forgot to shave or iron his shirt for his video presentation. I think the good people of Tuscany, Scenic Acres, Silversprings, et al will still probably vote for the old white conservative guy.

I already voted for the 13 year old girl for what it's worth.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:36 AM   #1996
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What I will say is that election strategy, or at least the perception of election strategy, has changed since Brexit and the US election. Lots of racial and nationalist messages, sent via the "dark-side" of social media, had a major impact on the result of both of those events.

Donald Trump's campaign used social media in a very different way; they used psychological sorting tools, and social media profile data, to identify likely voters and created highly targeted, and discrete smear campaigns. They arranged it so angry and fearful people read ugly things away from the prying eyes of others, and also encouraged and reminded these people to come out and vote. If your message doesn't have to be publicly broadcast, you can get away with saying almost anything, and more importantly, you don't have to even be attached to the message. Facebook even let a lot of this stuff come through as "news".

Is this happening in Calgary? I don't know, I'm personally not seeing anything like that going on. In any case, a strong voter turn out will likely favour Nenshi, so if he thinks playing the flip-side of the racism card gets people to turn out, he may be smart to do so.

I think, however, he might be giving the public too much credit for being aware of the strategy and tactics of the recent US election. He wants to say "It happened there, don't let it happen here", but without that connection, this message will just come off as simple fear mongering.

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Old 10-12-2017, 10:39 AM   #1997
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Oh come on, just because there's only 3 tweets in the article doesn't mean that's all there is.
But there's an entirely different scenario between a couple racist trolls posting a reply to YouTube that gains no traction, or an Anti-Muslim post that gets downvoted on Reddit, or a Tweet that never gets retweeted compared to the great racist conspiracy currently being put in works to vote out Nenshi as mayor. I mean Nenshi's campaign was talking about mass bots and seemed to be acting like there was some sophisticated election rigging against him going on.

Based on the talk of "vocal social media racists" influencing undecided voters on this forum, and the "scary" amount of twitter bots, I was expecting a lot more than some post made by, what I am assuming to be, an anonymous 14 year old that had to be hunted down.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:39 AM   #1998
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Perhaps ironically, the huge amount of early voting might save Ward Sutherland. Too late to change your vote for many.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:43 AM   #1999
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I suspect he's still a mortal lock. His (and my) ward has a lot of older, middle-class, conservative folks. The competition for ward 1 is a lady who looks like she's 13 years old, a Snidely Whiplash wannabe hipster (in appearance at least), an thickly-accented Indian who doesn't seem to have a platform and another guy who has almost no presence and forgot to shave or iron his shirt for his video presentation. I think the good people of Tuscany, Scenic Acres, Silversprings, et al will still probably vote for the old white conservative guy.

I already voted for the 13 year old girl for what it's worth.
I'm one of those Tuscanites, and I didn't vote for Sutherland in the advance polls. But you're absolutely right - this part of town has a reputation of voting for the familiar conservative, regardless of how they conduct themselves. Case in point: Rob Anders.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:44 AM   #2000
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As I said earlier, thereís no sense in denying one as a way of proving the other. You can go ahead and say people have a variety of reasons, but itís naive to think that none of them involve race or religion.
Well I know for a fact that there are people who could not care less that he is a Muslim that are not voting for him. Again, regardless of his ethnicity, religion, whatever, there are a lot of legitimate reasons for people to not vote for him, and for you to suggest otherwise is beyond absurd.

Are some people not voting for him because of race/religion? Of course there are and have been the last 2 elections as well. So what's different now? Nothing except he is feeling uncomfortable in what looks like a tight race and he is going full politicking 101 to try and secure a win. It happens with every politician when faced with adversity. It's OK too, as it is part of the "game".

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These situations arenít helped by pretending these things donít exist, by pretending that just because a Muslim Mayor was voted in twice that racism and bigotry is all gone. Howís the US look to you? A black president was voted in, twice, followed by a huge swell of racism and bigotry, and a president who embraced it. But they shouldíve been cured of their racism, right? Just because Obama was voted in twice and had high approval ratings?
What has this crap to do with this mayoral race? Are you trying to prove that there is racism among us in Calgary? Well no kidding Sherlock, well done. In other words, "man bites dog, pictures at 11".


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All thatís required of us is that we stop discrediting every non-white person who talks about racism like their playing some sort of advantage. Itís embarrassing and something to be ashamed of
If someone plays the race card to gain an advantage, we should question motives at the very least. Particularly when that person is....you know....campaigning to be the mayor of a city.

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Itís telling that there is a group of anti-Nenshi voters who feel like this is a personal affront to them, that instead of just saying ďYeah, I could see that, but my reasons are as follows...Ē they say ďNo, thatís not happening, or that doesnít matter, it doesnít!Ē Nenshi is talking about a very specific group of his detractors, and you all feel the need to make it general and act like heís speaking about every single one of you.
No one is saying "that's not happeneing" or if they are they are wrong. What most grown ups are saying is that the insinuation that if you support Bill Smith, Andre Chabot or anyone else, you are usurping democracy because you agree with what some moronic/closeted racist haters are spouting. Its, again, an absurd thing to suggest.

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Yes, itís uncomfortable to know that youíre voting the same way as some racists and bigots are, but that doesnít mean anyone (including Nenshi himself, which heís made clear) believes youíre voting for the same reasons. Itís time to grow up, stop blaming the victim, and accept that the world is not as hunky dory as you pretend it is. Thatís how you move forward and understand. Not from a place of ignorance, but from a place of recognition.

Yeah it's time to grow up allright and realize that people have way more invested in seeing who their next mayor is beyond the color of his skin or the church he attends. I say you are the one who is displaying ignorance to think otherwise.

As far as being comfortable with who I am voting for? No worries here, and I think even you would agree as I have no idea what is motivating others to vote for whom i'm leaning towards.
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