02-26-2021, 01:22 PM
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#7841
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
If that trade was talked about, it was likely Columbus that pulled out due to Johnny and Monny's contracts coming due too soon for their taste, and the liklihood of them resigning.
Funny, if that trade had happened, many posters would have hated it then. It would sure look better today.
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I agree the length of term likely spooked Columbus but I think if PLD was part of the deal it wouldn’t be hated by most of the fanbase. Downgrading from Gaudreau to Anderson would piss some off but upgrading from Monahan to Dubois would have got a positive reaction.
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02-26-2021, 01:26 PM
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#7842
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbsy
Per eklund...
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Value should be as high now as it has been so I say we should just pull the trigger. Johnny has been wonderful, now let's turn him into a flames legend by also acquiring some future assets for him.
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02-26-2021, 01:37 PM
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#7843
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
Value should be as high now as it has been so I say we should just pull the trigger. Johnny has been wonderful, now let's turn him into a flames legend by also acquiring some future assets for him.
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Do people really believe a players value is affected by the most recent 20 games or so?
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02-26-2021, 01:38 PM
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#7844
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOfan
I thought the names around Columbus and the Flames were Anderson, one of their goalies and I think Friedmen mentioned Gavrikov. If I were to bet, it was Monahan going the other way and perhaps others depending on how many pieces were moving either way.
Pinder made this point earlier this week and it is an interesting one, I think. If the Flames were trying to move Monahan this last off season it definitely says something about the player, or maybe management, that they couldn't find a trade partner with a 30 goal in his prime centreman on the table.
Based on what we have seen to date this season, I would say it is more of a Monahan thing than it is a Treliving thing.
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Well, there may indeed have been differences in value, and maybe the trade partners were leery of Monahan not re-signing in the near future. Any team wanting Monahan would be an already strong team looking for a solid second line C, IMO. So their offer would mainly be futures. That wouldn’t have worked for Calgary.
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02-26-2021, 01:43 PM
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#7845
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOfan
Do people really believe a players value is affected by the most recent 20 games or so?
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How do you not see that on every hockey forum? 1000% what have you done for me lately in the mind of many fans
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02-26-2021, 01:47 PM
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#7846
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Well, there may indeed have been differences in value, and maybe the trade partners were leery of Monahan not re-signing in the near future. Any team wanting Monahan would be an already strong team looking for a solid second line C, IMO. So their offer would mainly be futures. That wouldn’t have worked for Calgary.
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yeah, I agree. In most instances the trade would have been for futures.
it was reported that the Flames and BJ's were in pretty close contact with one another. Based on the trade that was ultimately completed between for Anderson, it seems reasonable that Kekalinen wanted a C coming back. If I were in Trelivings shoes, at that time, I would have wanted more than Anderson alone for Monahan. I think Monahan had more value than Domi. I could be wrong, but I suspect the deal fell apart on who adds what and how much. Did the Flames want a goalie and Anderson for Monahan? We don't know.
On another note Pinder has been on about this for a week or so, but apparently he is saying that a deal around Monahan for Ristolanien was close as well.
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02-26-2021, 01:50 PM
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#7847
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sunnyvale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOfan
Do people really believe a players value is affected by the most recent 20 games or so?
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For some, Yes. What is the cut off line though? 40 games, 1/2 a season? 1 season? It has to player by player based play, injuries age and history among other information. 80 games ago Gio was a Norris trophy winner, today, he is a number 5, and trending towards a number 6 vs back up to a 1, 2 or a 3. Last season Josh Anderson was a one goal scorer with potential and he looks to have turned it around. James Neal fell right off the cliff while others really out preform their contracts, so hard to tell.
__________________
The only thing better then a glass of beer is tea with Ms McGill
Last edited by Derek Sutton; 02-26-2021 at 01:56 PM.
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02-26-2021, 01:50 PM
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#7848
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOfan
yeah, I agree. In most instances the trade would have been for futures.
it was reported that the Flames and BJ's were in pretty close contact with one another. Based on the trade that was ultimately completed between for Anderson, it seems reasonable that Kekalinen wanted a C coming back. If I were in Trelivings shoes, at that time, I would have wanted more than Anderson alone for Monahan. I think Monahan had more value than Domi. I could be wrong, but I suspect the deal fell apart on who adds what and how much. Did the Flames want a goalie and Anderson for Monahan? We don't know.
On another note Pinder has been on about this for a week or so, but apparently he is saying that a deal around Monahan for Ristolanien was close as well.
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Wasn’t Brian Burke the one who knocked Ristolanien saying his advance stats were good but he wasn’t a good player? I have no idea if that’s right or wrong, but if that’s the feeling around Flames management at the time, what’s changed, aside from Burke no longer around?
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02-26-2021, 01:51 PM
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#7849
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Taking a while to get to 5000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleury
Wasn’t Brian Burke the one who knocked Ristolanien saying his advance stats were good but he wasn’t a good player? I have no idea if that’s right or wrong, but if that’s the feeling around Flames management at the time, what’s changed, aside from Burke no longer around?
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Burke had mentioned that Chris Snow advised against that acquisition
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02-26-2021, 01:51 PM
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#7850
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleury
Wasn’t Brian Burke the one who knocked Ristolanien saying his advance stats were good but he wasn’t a good player? I have no idea if that’s right or wrong, but if that’s the feeling around Flames management at the time, what’s changed, aside from Burke no longer around?
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No.
The Flames looked at Risto, but Chris Snow (I believe it was him) absolutely crushed it by showing just how bad Risto is using advanced stats.
Risto’s advanced stats are trash.
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02-26-2021, 02:01 PM
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#7851
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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I don’t even see why the Flames would trade for Risto- he didn’t fill a need, especially if they figured Gio would hang on to his abilities a little more. Where would he slot?
Trading Monahan wouldn’t have done much IMO. Now you’ve finally got the RW to play with Gaudreau and Monahan except you don’t have Monahan. So you slide Lindholm in - fine, though he’s pretty untested at C. And now Tkachuk is back with Backlund and Mangiapane? He plays OK with them but it’s not really a one two punch any more. And then you have have Bennett with Lucic and Dube - your line that’s good in the POs or in a whistle-less game.
Keep in mind too, Anderson needed a contract. He ended up with a pretty hefty one for a guy who’d topped out at 47 points, coming off a big injury, and who is already 26.
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02-26-2021, 02:14 PM
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#7852
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Lifetime In Suspension
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It feels like going back ages the one thing all Calgary management and leadership have agreed upon is that you can never have too many defencemen. Ever.
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02-26-2021, 02:19 PM
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#7854
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOfan
Do people really believe a players value is affected by the most recent 20 games or so?
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Do you really believe that GMs aren't humans who are affected by recency bias and hockey fans? There are myriad examples of player value fluctuating significantly based on season to season play.
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02-26-2021, 02:21 PM
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#7855
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Lifetime Suspension
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Reading this thread makes one wonder. Is there a player that would be worth trading for and then giving a contract to?
Seems like every player that's up to discussion here is either not good enough, injury prone, overpaid or too old.
How do the other teams manage to win games with all these bad players? 
You can't wait till a 20 year old star on an ELC is made available for a Sam Bennett. Sometimes you have to take some risk.
Create a list of needs, create a player profile that fits that need and go to work Tre. He talked about getting bigger and harder to play agains and then went out and signed guys like Ryan, Foo and Czarnik. Waste of time.
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02-26-2021, 02:56 PM
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#7856
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Back in Calgary
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Saw the Kings would move a C for a dynamic LD under 25.
Something around Vilardi for Hanifin?
https://www.tsn.ca/los-angeles-kings...line-1.1599391
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02-26-2021, 03:02 PM
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#7857
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
Do you really believe that GMs aren't humans who are affected by recency bias and hockey fans? There are myriad examples of player value fluctuating significantly based on season to season play.
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To me, it’s more than just that too. Most (not all) players go through hot and cold periods of both a season and of their career. Sure, you are generally making trades for the long term but it is much more attractive to bring in a player who is “hot” or playing at the top of their game. Especially so, if you are a team who is either in the hunt or near the bottom but looking for a boost for your team or fan base etc.
Especially this year with a short season, it is extremely valuable to bring in a player who is hot. I’m pretty sure a GM would pay a premium for that and less for a player they may want long term and may turn a corner when traded but is currently “cold” to the normalized expectations of what that player might be.
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02-26-2021, 03:21 PM
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#7858
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3thirty
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I like that idea.
Future oriented is Turcotte going to turn out?
Would you move Valimaki for Turcotte?
Vilardi is 6'2" and put up excellent offensive numbers in juniour.
__________________
'Skank' Marden: I play hockey and I fornicate, 'cause those are the two most fun things to do in cold weather. - Mystery Alaska
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02-26-2021, 03:46 PM
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#7859
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Apr 2016
Exp: 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dissentowner
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Building around Johnny is a great plan, unless of course you want to win in the playoffs.
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02-26-2021, 03:48 PM
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#7860
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Degree
Building around Johnny is a great plan, unless of course you want to win in the playoffs.
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Like Ovechkin right?
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