Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 08-12-2017, 08:55 PM   #181
Buck Murdock
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Buck Murdock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan View Post
Wow.

Ok, I'm trying not to offend you by saying this, but you are obtuse if you believe that questioning the birthplace of the first black president wasn't racially motivated. ESPECIALLY after Trump wouldn't drop it even AFTER Obama provided his birth certificate. I didn't see him question any other president's place of birth in all his time on Earth. He may not have even come up with it, he might have heard it from one of his insane alt-right media guys that he loves so much. However, he did believe it quickly and in the face of contradictory evidence. Believing the worst that you hear about a black man, and ignoring all the other stuff.

That's racism my friend. Don't be afraid to call things for what they are.
I don't think its obtuse to think the President, no matter who it is, is under tremendous scrutiny with their every action and personal history attacked. Doesn't that happen to all of them? Isn't that part of holding the highest office in the land and being leader of the free world? If that is the case, then how is it not conceivable that an issue like a birth certificate be made into a tremendous issue? Your saying it should be off limits because its an African American president? Being born in the U.S is a legal requirement and if the opposition can see an opening on that issue, they will go for it (Ted Cruz was attacked for being born in Calgary). Is it low brow politics, yes of course, but is it racism? I can't claim to know that Donald Trump was motivated my racism. You could probably make the claim that anytime Obama faced intense scrutiny it was racially motivated. Therefore, he should not be scrutinized.
Buck Murdock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 08:55 PM   #182
squiggs96
Franchise Player
 
squiggs96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Section 206
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan View Post
For example: I am now an American. Did I suddenly become stupid just because I live here?
I believe that's a pre-existing condition. It might be covered under Obama care.
__________________
My thanks equals mod team endorsement of your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by polak
nvm stupid comment
squiggs96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 08:55 PM   #183
EldrickOnIce
Franchise Player
 
EldrickOnIce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Chicago
Exp:
Default

Meanwhile in Charlottesville, if that's still what we are talking about

Quote:
Authorities say a 20-year-old Ohio man accused of driving a car into a group of counter-protesters at a white nationalist rally has been charged with second-degree murder and other counts.

The Charlottesville Police Department said in a statement Saturday night that James Alex Fields Jr. of Ohio also faces three counts of malicious wounding, and one count related to leaving the scene.
EldrickOnIce is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to EldrickOnIce For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2017, 08:58 PM   #184
wittynickname
wittyusertitle
 
wittynickname's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames in 07 View Post
Yea. And now the extremists on both sides looking for a fight may recreate this in other cities. It's not a natural reaction but you just need to let these clowns get their life's frustrations off heir chest and then it's over.
That definitely worked in Germany. If they would've just let those damn Nazis wear themselves out with the marching and the heiling Hitler stuff, the whole Third Reich could've been avoided.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Murdock View Post
I followed the 2016 election closely and don't remember any super ugly policies promised by Trump. His immigration platform was to stop illegal immigration (seems logical), better trade deals (whats wrong with that?), suspension of travel from high risk middle eastern countries (same as Obama) to name a few. Were their others that were offensive that I'm forgetting?
Wanting to ban all Muslims from entering the country? Wanting to institute a religious test for immigrants? Saying he would pay his supporters' legal fees if they hit protesters? Wanting to re-institute the "stop and frisk" policy that was found to be unconstitutional (also unfairly targets people of color, so that feeds right into the racism). Those are just a couple off of the top of my head.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames in 07 View Post
This is exactly what is wrong with politics now. People can't discuss without the name calling and spending more time slamming the other person instead of building arguments and them listening to the reply.
When you're still supporting a President when he gives false equivalency to people literally waving Nazi flags and doing Nazi salutes and those protesting them--I have no problem calling that out. If you can't call out the man for refusing to acknowledge blatant racism and domestic terrorism, I have no faith in you as a person. Even Orrin Hatch called it what it was. This is not a partisan issue. This is a cut-and-dried, black-or-white issue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Murdock View Post
Sorry if you thought it was lame, but that was my perception of that event. I've never heard it called racism till now. I believe Obama is the first President in over 100 years to have a foreign born father, so I didn't think it was a huge stretch for that to become an issue, especially when it dragged on for so long. Please explain how you perceived it to be racist, I'm interested.
Had he dropped the argument once Obama released his birth certificate, this could be explained away. He never dropped it.
wittynickname is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to wittynickname For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2017, 09:00 PM   #185
jayswin
Celebrated Square Root Day
 
jayswin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

I imagine that will get upgraded to first degree as soon as they can get a confession.
jayswin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 09:07 PM   #186
jayswin
Celebrated Square Root Day
 
jayswin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

On another note, is there one thing we can change as a board? It's something I've been guilty of a lot so I'm not taking any moral high ground here.

Can we be a lot more respectful and less arrogant towards our neighbours to the south and their country? It comes off poorly and they already have so much **** to deal with. You would think that as Albertans we could understand the frustration and alienation that goes with everyone ****ing on you for things that are mostly beyond your control.

I could go on how about how our governments aren't comparable or how they have a million complicated issues that we don't have to deal with, but all that's besides the point that we should aspire to be the great people that we're known for around the world, and the way many continually knock them and their people down is the opposite of who we claim to be.

America's a beautiful place with millions of amazing, kind, smart people. They're a world super power with 340 million people, and an oppressive, malicious government, of course things aren't going to run smoothly, but let's not continually call their whole country stupid.
jayswin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 09:11 PM   #187
Flash Walken
Franchise Player
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Exp:
Default

Wonderful Twitter thread:

https://twitter.com/ericmcdanieldc/s...40462210789382
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by erikk3 View Post
Hell yeah neck tats let's go
Flash Walken is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Flash Walken For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2017, 09:16 PM   #188
jayswin
Celebrated Square Root Day
 
jayswin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan View Post
For example: I am now an American. Did I suddenly become stupid just because I live here?
Were you smart when you left?
jayswin is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jayswin For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2017, 09:16 PM   #189
wittynickname
wittyusertitle
 
wittynickname's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Exp:
Default

Ted Cruz called this out as racism and the car into the crowd as domestic terrorism. Ted freaking Cruz.

This is not partisan. This is a group of (mostly) white men heil-ing Trump and wearing SS gear and waving Nazi flags. This is not Republican or Democrat. This is racism, plain and simple. That Trump refuses to call it such is appalling. Literally the bare minimum the man could do as President is say that Nazis are bad. He can't even manage that much.
wittynickname is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to wittynickname For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2017, 09:21 PM   #190
jayswin
Celebrated Square Root Day
 
jayswin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

People continually laugh off the idea of violent uprisings in America's future citing the lack of an unemployed young men. There's major unrest in white America and with the lower income industrial jobs disappearing you're seeing the cracks.

Next up is the middle class jobs being replaced by the same technology that they themselves cheered on when it was replacing the "replaceable" workers, when that shift starts to take shape.....look out.

We're not likely more than ten years away from that either.
jayswin is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jayswin For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2017, 09:29 PM   #191
nik-
Franchise Player
 
nik-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Exp:
Default

This is all madness
nik- is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to nik- For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2017, 09:32 PM   #192
iggy_oi
First Line Centre
 
iggy_oi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarchHare View Post
So your defense of Trump is that he isn't really a racist, he just says racist things to grab the spotlight? Is there a meaningful difference between an actual racist and someone with a well-known national profile who spouts racist views to increase his media exposure? Ponder that question for a moment.
I honestly think that trump is more of a sociopath or narcissist than a racist. Racism is rooted in stereotyping, I think trump uses these issues to build his power, not because he actually believes in anything, though he very well could. He's not just exploiting minorities in his endeavours, his goal always seems to be to do what's in his best interest. To answer your question, I think the only meaningful difference other than the ideological reasoning, is that one is born out of ignorance or stupidity and the other is calculated. Both are bad, just in different ways. The racist person will believe and do racist things, the person saying racist things with an alterior motive will say things so that the racist person believes and does racist things so that they can benefit in some other way. If that makes sense. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter, racist or not he's still a jackass.
iggy_oi is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to iggy_oi For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2017, 09:39 PM   #193
Cali Panthers Fan
Franchise Player
 
Cali Panthers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Murdock View Post
I don't think its obtuse to think the President, no matter who it is, is under tremendous scrutiny with their every action and personal history attacked. Doesn't that happen to all of them? Isn't that part of holding the highest office in the land and being leader of the free world? If that is the case, then how is it not conceivable that an issue like a birth certificate be made into a tremendous issue? Your saying it should be off limits because its an African American president? Being born in the U.S is a legal requirement and if the opposition can see an opening on that issue, they will go for it (Ted Cruz was attacked for being born in Calgary). Is it low brow politics, yes of course, but is it racism? I can't claim to know that Donald Trump was motivated my racism. You could probably make the claim that anytime Obama faced intense scrutiny it was racially motivated. Therefore, he should not be scrutinized.
Besides the fact that you're willfully ignoring all the telltale signs of racism, I will concede that Presidents should be under intense scrutiny.

If that's you're opinion then I have 3 words for you: Trump's Tax Returns.

No president has withheld them going back for a couple of generations now, and yet this one refuses despite numerous requests, probably because of connections to Russia, but I don't know for sure. All I know is that something so simple shouldn't be difficult to produce...probably on the same level of, oh, I don't know........a birth certificate?

If I want to see his tax returns, does that make me a "reverse racist"? I don't know, I'm just so tired of it all. All I want is for people to start feeling like we're all on the same team again. I don't think that's possible under this administration. It looks like they're trying to intentionally divide the country in order to rule the stupid and steal from the poor. That just sucks.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien View Post
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
Cali Panthers Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Cali Panthers Fan For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2017, 09:39 PM   #194
wittynickname
wittyusertitle
 
wittynickname's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin View Post
People continually laugh off the idea of violent uprisings in America's future citing the lack of an unemployed young men. There's major unrest in white America and with the lower income industrial jobs disappearing you're seeing the cracks.

Next up is the middle class jobs being replaced by the same technology that they themselves cheered on when it was replacing the "replaceable" workers, when that shift starts to take shape.....look out.

We're not likely more than ten years away from that either.
This is not about jobs or economic security. Ask Trump, unemployment is extremely low and the stock market is at a record high. He's doing a great job, just ask him.

This is not what got Trump elected either, but it's been discussed ad nauseum in the US Politics thread and I won't go into it more here.

Today was about white people being freaked out that they're losing their stranglehold on power in America. There's a fantastic thread on Twitter that summed it up.

https://twitter.com/JuliusGoat/statu...26301832925184

Quote:
Imagine if these people ever faced actual oppression.

Nobody is trying to legislate away their right to marry.
Nobody is trying to make them buy insurance to pay for 'male health care.'

The law never

Enslaved their great-grandparents
Robbed their grandparents
Imprisoned their parents
Shot them when unarmed

There is no massive effort at the state and local level to disenfranchise them of the vote.

There is no history of centuries of bad science devoted to 'proving' their intellectual inferiority.

There is no travel ban on them because of their religion.
There is no danger for them when they carry dangerous weaponry publicly.

Their churches were never burned.
Their lawns never decorated with burning crosses
Their ancestors never hung from trees
Quote:
They are chanting 'we will not be replaced.'

Replaced as ... what?

I'll tell you.

Replaced as the only voice in public discussions.
Replaced as the only bodies in the public arena.
Replaced as the only life that matters.

THIS is 'white man' oppression.

We face criticism now. We were free from it, because others feared the consequences.
Quote:
Give them a world where you ACTUALLY can't say Christmas.

A world where the name "Geoff" on a resume puts it in the trash.

Give them a world where their polo shirt makes people nervous, so they're kicked off the flight from Pittsburgh to Indianapolis.

Give them a world where if they pulled up on a campus with torches lit and started throwing hands, the cops would punch their eyes out.

All of that says everything that truly sums up what this current "alt-right" movement is about. It is because these entitled white men are angry because they used to be able to say the n-word in public and now people call them out on it.

There are some economic issues relating to Trump (though they still weren't the main factor in his being elected), but for this demonstration today? This is not economic. This is white supremacists pissed off that people different than them are getting the rights they had all along. That's literally all this is about. They want everyone who isn't a white straight god-fearing person (preferably a man) to stay below them the way they'd been for so many years.
wittynickname is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to wittynickname For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2017, 09:41 PM   #195
nfotiu
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Virginia
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wittynickname View Post
Ted Cruz called this out as racism and the car into the crowd as domestic terrorism. Ted freaking Cruz.

This is not partisan. This is a group of (mostly) white men heil-ing Trump and wearing SS gear and waving Nazi flags. This is not Republican or Democrat. This is racism, plain and simple. That Trump refuses to call it such is appalling. Literally the bare minimum the man could do as President is say that Nazis are bad. He can't even manage that much.
Trump's speech looked more prepared than normal. Someone (Bannon?) wanted him to spread the blame to both sides.
nfotiu is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to nfotiu For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2017, 09:43 PM   #196
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

Ah yes, the Marxist lens returns... If that's the story of the day, well, I hope you enjoy your race wars. I don't love your chances, though. Those guys have quite a few guns.
__________________
If you were given the option to pay 45 cents to predict the outcome of a coin flip, and if correct in your prediction you win a dollar, you may lose 45 cents on the first try. You may even lose 90 cents after the second try. But if you keep betting, you'll end up ahead in the long term. This is the value of analytics. They do not describe destiny, only the likeliest result.
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 09:58 PM   #197
driveway
A Fiddler Crab
 
driveway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Exp:
Default

Racism has nothing to do with a person's thoughts or motivations, racism is about people's words and actions.

It's like being stupid - you don't get to decide you are or are not stupid, people watch what you do and say and then let you know if you're stupid.

Racism works the same way. No one gets to claim that the continued questioning of Obama's place of birth might not be racist because of the motivations of the people doing it. The ACTION is clearly racist, therefore the people doing it are racists. The action of calling for a ban on Muslim immigration is racist, therefore the person calling for this ban is a racist.

No one ever needs to parse a person's motivations, or hedge when trying to determine if someone is or is not racist. Does the action, or do the words specifically target a disadvantaged racial minority or member thereof? Does it increase their disadvantage? Then that's racism and the person saying or doing it is a racist.
driveway is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to driveway For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2017, 09:59 PM   #198
Buck Murdock
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Buck Murdock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan View Post
Besides the fact that you're willfully ignoring all the telltale signs of racism, I will concede that Presidents should be under intense scrutiny.

If that's you're opinion then I have 3 words for you: Trump's Tax Returns.

No president has withheld them going back for a couple of generations now, and yet this one refuses despite numerous requests, probably because of connections to Russia, but I don't know for sure. All I know is that something so simple shouldn't be difficult to produce...probably on the same level of, oh, I don't know........a birth certificate?

If I want to see his tax returns, does that make me a "reverse racist"? I don't know, I'm just so tired of it all. All I want is for people to start feeling like we're all on the same team again. I don't think that's possible under this administration. It looks like they're trying to intentionally divide the country in order to rule the stupid and steal from the poor. That just sucks.
I appreciate your points. The way I look at it, it is pretty well established that Trump can act like a jackass all the time. So if Trump acts like a jackass to Obama, does this confirm he's a jackass, or instead confirm he's a racist?

Being called racist is really really bad. A racist is a terrible, terrible, evil person. A claim not to be made lightly. So to make that claim, you need extraordinary evidence.
Buck Murdock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 10:18 PM   #199
Parallex
I believe in the Jays.
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Murdock View Post
I appreciate your points. The way I look at it, it is pretty well established that Trump can act like a jackass all the time. So if Trump acts like a jackass to Obama, does this confirm he's a jackass, or instead confirm he's a racist?
They're not mutually exclusive. In all likelihood Trump is a racist jackass.
__________________
Ken King should be fired.
Parallex is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Parallex For This Useful Post:
Old 08-12-2017, 10:19 PM   #200
transplant99
Fearmongerer
 
transplant99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wittynickname View Post
This is not about jobs or economic security. Ask Trump, unemployment is extremely low and the stock market is at a record high. He's doing a great job, just ask him.

This is not what got Trump elected either, but it's been discussed ad nauseum in the US Politics thread and I won't go into it more here.

Today was about white people being freaked out that they're losing their stranglehold on power in America. There's a fantastic thread on Twitter that summed it up.

Nonsense.

This is about a miniscule fraction of the population who are like-minded morons coming together to espouse their agenda.

Lumping all white people in with this group of thugs is the same thing as saying all muslims are terrorists. Something we all know is completely false.

Because these clowns get so much press when this stuff happens it is seemingly a way bigger movement than it really is. In reality I doubt they make up even .001% of the US population and they sure as hell do not represent the rest of the caucasians elsewhere in the country.
__________________
Quote:
Tkachuk is more like Marchand than the other guys though. He's really ****ing good. He's just a total butthole.
Unknown Kings fan
transplant99 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to transplant99 For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:49 PM.

Calgary Flames
2017-18




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016