2022-2023 Toronto Raptors/NBA season thread

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Well just because it's not illegal in a criminal sense doesn't mean it doesn't meet the threshold needed for an employer to discipline an employee.

Also the NBA is high profile, high value business that is, like many businesses, risk averse. Having your premiere talents like Ja on social media brandishing weapons is not a good look for really any business. I also think the issue of gun violence is front and center for the NBA, and how much harm gun violence has had on the Black community in the USA. The NBA is looking to be a place trying to appeal to good values and have its employees be advocates and role models for positive socially responsible behavior. Business's can set their own code of conduct and anything thought to bring harm to the reputation of their business can and will be punished accordingly.

It's pretty interesting to me. Culturally Canada is so different than the States on gun ownership views. Being Canadian I don't understand their obsession with the right to gun ownership, though I see why they like the "toy" aspect of it all. I just don't understand from the NBAs standpoint how they position guns within their governance documents to American players where guns are part of their first amendment rights? It must be super touchy, and given their lust for guns, I wonder if it's been challenged? From a culture perspective I never thought of it before until now but it's interesting to me. FWIW, I have a very strong aversion to the American view on this stuff...going to the states and seeing people having sidearms is jarring.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The caveat right now is whatever additional info they've uncovered. Was he possibly a suspect in a crime, or something like that? That could be something that would be used to escalate the punishment. Otherwise I would think while it will be a suspension, it would be in the 10-15 game range, because while flashing guns might not be something the league wants to associated with, it is still Murica so it's legal as can be. A full season would surely set off a huge fight with the NBAPA.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by bluejays

It's pretty interesting to me. Culturally Canada is so different than the States on gun ownership views. Being Canadian I don't understand their obsession with the right to gun ownership, though I see why they like the "toy" aspect of it all. I just don't understand from the NBAs standpoint how they position guns within their governance documents to American players where guns are part of their first amendment rights? It must be super touchy, and given their lust for guns, I wonder if it's been challenged? From a culture perspective I never thought of it before until now but it's interesting to me. FWIW, I have a very strong aversion to the American view on this stuff...going to the states and seeing people having sidearms is jarring.

Here is some more information from Adam Silver about the factors guiding his decision making process:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...legal-standard

"Waving them around, displaying them in a certain context, is not consistent with gun safety and is not the proper message that an NBA player, particularly one at Ja's level, should be sending to the tens of millions of followers he has -- and particularly when it's an incident once again, where it's been streamed live on social media," Silver said. "So yes, I think given the similarity of this incident to the first one, I was alarmed, I was disheartened."

"When we have a standard for conduct detrimental, at the end of the day, it's one based on what we see as the values of this league and what our expectations from our players in terms of the image we're portraying to our fans," Silver said. "So, it's not a legal standard. It's a private organization standard."

I also share your aversion for guns and I find their ubiquity in US society frankly sickening. It is the number 1 thing about the USA I will never understand.

[octothorp]

I think there's a really heavy racial and PR component here (though the league would never say that). There are some pretty ugly stereotypes that a significant number of white americans have about young black men, and in league history, there's been a lot of incidents that reinforce that... from Gilbert Arenas bringing a gun to the locker room, Jayson Williams (recently retired at the time) shooting a limo driver, the Jailblazers era, oncourt violence like the Malice at the Palace, or offcourt like Sprewell choking his coach, lots of hard drug use, gambling to the point of financial ruin, etc.

The NBA has worked really hard to get away from those stereotypes, and for the most part, has succeeded (with treatment of women is still one major problem area... still far too many domestic violence and harassment incidents). Morant's flashing a gun on instagram takes the NBA back to an era it wants to desperately avoid.

[hwy19man]

Game 2 of the NBA Finals
1800h, 6:00 PM on ABC, Sportsnet, and RDSInfo (RIS)


SiriusXM channel 82 has the ESPN radio feed

Channel 86 has the Nuggets feed
Channel 81 has the Heat feed

at
https://stats.cbc.ca/basketball/nba/matchup/1064815
https://scores.nbcsports.com/nba/pre...&home=7&vis=14
https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/games/2556721/
https://www.espn.com/nba/preview/_/gameId/401544847

[hwy19man]

Marc Kestecher, P. J. Carlesimo, Doris Burke, and Rosalyn Gold-Onwude are the ESPN radio commentators.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Kevin Love in for Caleb Martin lol

[Paulie Walnuts]

Absolutely embarrassing reffing should just give the game to thr Heat

[jayswin]

I can actually see why the NBA is faked/managed to a degree. When you watch enough games, you can see that a vast majority would be way out of hand way too early if they didn't foul the trailing team back into contention on a regular basis.

I mean I guess it's the sheer number of points that make their situation a little unique. In the NHL if a team can be "running away" a bit with a game, but it's like 3-0 after the first. With the number of points being scored in the NBA the team running away could be up by 20 after 1, 40 after two, 60 after three etc. I can see the need/desire to assist in games being closer.

[jayswin]

nm

[hwy19man]

That was a goaltending missed call by the referees. The ball was clearly on the way down and Adabeyo blocked the ball.

[Hockey_Ninja]

No sweep! Was honestly starting to think this finals was gonna be boring. Guess not

[Paulie Walnuts]

You can thank the refs and Adam silver for that.

[Mathgod]

Murray with 10 assists, Jokic with just 4. Did they swap jerseys?

[Kasi]

No they just gameplanned to make Jokic have to score. Everyone before this was trying to double team him or switch/help on him but he’s just too good to pass over it or make the right decisions. So they flipped it in its head and are challenging Jokic to be the scorer while taking away his teammates.

[Strange Brew]

I thought that was an entertaining game. Heat are a well coached team, something few people were saying during their title runs.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

You can thank the refs and Adam silver for that.

Yep, so obvious. Nuggets will get their champiobship but the league will ensure they get as many ticket sales and ratings as they can along the way. It's a storyline league and they'll try to make it better than a sweep.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Was hoping for a sweep so we can get to the offseason drama, which has consistently more compelling than the on court product the last few years. Case in point...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1665747152327389186

[bluejays]

I hate basketball in that regard. I don't buy that old stars were morally better in how competitive they were, because Jordan and others had some star players with them, and until the past 15 years or so the league didn't really have parity. So star players stood out much more where they didn't need to bunch with their friends. What I don't like is how blatantly the selling of "come to my team" these days, is. It's a slap in the face to fans that invest in these guys. I'm not naive to believe each pro player loves the city they're in, but to show no understanding and chasing greener pastures time and time again shows some level of childishness.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I hate basketball in that regard. I don't buy that old stars were morally better in how competitive they were, because Jordan and others had some star players with them, and until the past 15 years or so the league didn't really have parity. So star players stood out much more where they didn't need to bunch with their friends. What I don't like is how blatantly the selling of "come to my team" these days, is. It's a slap in the face to fans that invest in these guys. I'm not naive to believe each pro player loves the city they're in, but to show no understanding and chasing greener pastures time and time again shows some level of childishness.

It happened back then too TBH - free agency was just more restrictive back then.

Barkley tried to team up with Hakeen and Clyde.

Grant went to Orlando to try to team up with Shaq and Pippen. (Actually beating Jordan and the Bulls in the playoffs).

Which led to Rodman joining up with Pippen and Jordan after Grant left.

Malone and Payton joined Shaq and Kobe.

Garnett, Allen, and Pierce.

Kobe trying to get Chris Paul and Pau Gasol to LA with him and Lamar Odom.

Then of course Lebron, Wade, and Bosh.

Funniest part is Lebron gets all the hate for it, when really it had been happening for 2 decades already before he did it (and probably before that too TBH with the dynasties back then).

To me it's a bit of a byproduct of the way the NBA narrative has shifted to "only titles matter" in the post-Jordan era. Your legacy means nothing if you don't win titles...so why not try to play with better players to try to win more titles.

Analysts: "All that matters is winning, win at all costs"

Players: Join up with the other best players to win.

Analysts: "No not like that"