Honestly I can't quite understand what these people are protesting about. Am I apathetic? Not really . . . Maybe I'm too far away from the situation to grasp the issues. Whether I'm right or wrong - all it looks like to me is a bunch of students or people with nothing better to do complaining because they're at the bottom of the pole. Or people who just love the attention (celebrities), or people who get off on just protesting.
Last edited by ranchlandsselling; 10-03-2011 at 07:31 AM.
They should send the idiots protesting to an "education camp" that shows videos of how their preferred future actually works out.
The film will be called "the USSR and North Korea - Enjoy half a loaf of bread all week and the inability to buy the latest iphone to tweet your socialist garbage with"
The alternate title will be "Shut the ###### up hippies, communism sucks"
About 50 seconds in - people drinking champagne as protesters walk by.
I'm a bit confused on what the problem is here. Those people are at a bar, which is a venue in which people tend to drink. Are they supposed to put their drinks down and stand at attention because a protest comes by?
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Its amazing some of you jump to calling them wanting to end capitalism and are promoting communism.
It's amazing to me the negativity towards the protesters in this thread. In a broken political system, there's not much else to do but protest. I'm so encouraged by the protests and hope everyday they grow.
This whole idea that there needs to be a list of demands before the protests can take place is ridiculous. Everyone knows what the problems are. It's been talked about on this very web site for years now.
There's also this naive notion in the thread that everything will just work out. Why would that happen? This is a Western world only 70 years out of the worst tragedy in human existence. Don't be so naive to think that prosperity is endless and it can't fall it apart. It is falling apart in the United States right now.
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It's amazing to me the negativity towards the protesters in this thread.
Agreed. Love how the protesters are classified as just hippies, or unemployed bums and that because they don't have outlined objectives and demands, the whole movement it moot. If they dressed in suits and ties, then would they be worthy? If they handed out pamphlets stating each one of their objectives in point form with reasons and explanations for each one, then would they be worthy?
Its amazing some of you jump to calling them wanting to end capitalism and are promoting communism.
The end of capitalism HAS to result in some form of "Communism". I suggest you look up Communism. At its root, it's sharing (hint: look up the word "commune"). If people can't compete for there own betterment, then, by logic, they must be working of the betterment of everyone else, to some degree. Therefore I am correct - The removal of capitalism is, by logical conclusion, the promotion of some form of communism.
If we do go commie, I am certainly quitting my job and becoming an unemployed bum, so the hippies can work their ass off to support me and see how it feels with the tables turned.
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...Is anyone worried about the US going the way of Greece soon? Govt has no money, yet supports 1/3 of their population (14% on food, 12% on social security, 10% work for the govt). What is going to happen when they run out of money or when the inevitable devaluation of the US dollar happens?
That Forbes article made me laugh. He thinks everyone can stop protesting and become an entrepreneur and live the American dream. What he doesn't understand is that not everyone can be an entrepreneur, nor should they be. He's essentially telling them to go get a job and focus on your own time, completely ignoring the fact that the larger system is broken.
I really hate the argument people make that "hippies are wasting their time" and have no idea what they're protesting against. Taking a page from Weiser Wonder's previous post, those that hate the protests and think the protesters don't know what they're arguing for are missing the point - protesters aren't supposed to be the subject matter experts - they rely on those in power to be the experts, of which the experts are failing to do their job and serve the public good.
I liken it to the being a victim of a gun shooting. I don't have to know how the gun works or the mental stability of the shooter - I just know that I'm the victim and justice needs to be served. The very fact that some of these protesters (who are representing a larger population with similar issues) have been negatively impacted by the actions of bankers, politicians means they have a right to be doing what they're doing. Many people have lost their savings, homes, and general livelihood because of a broken political and banking system. They have every right to be upset.
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...Is anyone worried about the US going the way of Greece soon? Govt has no money, yet supports 1/3 of their population (14% on food, 12% on social security, 10% work for the govt). What is going to happen when they run out of money or when the inevitable devaluation of the US dollar happens?
This is all lining up for a huge US crisis.
You don't add those up - they are likely the same person.
The end of capitalism HAS to result in some form of "Communism".
My point is the solution to current problems isn't communism nor is anyone but fringe people suggesting it. Which is why its silly to suggest these people are out in force cheering for communism.
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I suggest you look up Communism. At its root, it's sharing (hint: look up the word "commune"). If people can't compete for there own betterment, then, by logic, they must be working of the betterment of everyone else, to some degree. Therefore I am correct - The removal of capitalism is, by logical conclusion, the promotion of some form of communism.
Not sure why you think I am unaware of communism, or its meanings. I am fully aware how American's often mistake socialism as communism and see any talk of socialist democracies as akin to Nazi Germany or communist China. I live in a socialist democracy, have lived in 2 of them in fact, because I used to live in Canada
Its odd how people are fiercely about democratic values, the importance of people having a say and a voice in our countries to dictate laws, policies and shape our future. This is something we all I think agree on, yet when it comes to economic policies, people are quite the opposite. Destroy unions, get rid of social safety nets, allow more wealth to be put in the hands of less people; all the while the middle class and everyone else is slowly becoming weaker and weaker.
People are constantly doing things against their own best interests, unions is just one example of a long proud history of this.
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If we do go commie, I am certainly quitting my job and becoming an unemployed bum, so the hippies can work their ass off to support me and see how it feels with the tables turned.
Its amazing how angry you are at these imagined leeches living off of all the hard working people. Have you ever been to a homeless shelter? Volunteered at a soup kitchen? There is certainly an element of people who will not work and often these are people riddled with mental problems and often substance abuse.
If your theory had any substance, you'd see high unemployment in socialist EU/Nordic nations, yet we compare to the US and Canada and have much better social nets for the poor. Iceland in fact until this recent crash held around 1% unemployment, and imported a lot of foreign workers to help fill the shortage. This is common in Nordic nations, which are very socialistic countries.
You'll also find wages and paid vacations are excellent in these nations, while you guys fight for 3 week paid vacation a year we get 5 weeks to start with, including tons of long weekends and extended work holidays around Christmas and New years. Our unions take about .7% of our wages and give us tons of benefits that most employers would not willingly provide if they didn't have a union to deal with.
Its amazing to me to see how we love to see business do well and workers do no better than they did 20-30 years ago in the US. All the while companies ship jobs overseas, downsize, and do everything in their power to maximize profits often at the expense of the workers.
Its a very sad situation, people don't want to fight for the average worker anymore but rather to protect and coddle the wealthy, big business and people who certainly don't need the help.
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My point is the solution to current problems isn't communism nor is anyone but fringe people suggesting it. Which is why its silly to suggest these people are out in force cheering for communism.
Not sure why you think I am unaware of communism, or its meanings. I am fully aware how American's often mistake socialism as communism and see any talk of socialist democracies as akin to Nazi Germany or communist China. I live in a socialist democracy, have lived in 2 of them in fact, because I used to live in Canada
Its odd how people are fiercely about democratic values, the importance of people having a say and a voice in our countries to dictate laws, policies and shape our future. This is something we all I think agree on, yet when it comes to economic policies, people are quite the opposite. Destroy unions, get rid of social safety nets, allow more wealth to be put in the hands of less people; all the while the middle class and everyone else is slowly becoming weaker and weaker.
People are constantly doing things against their own best interests, unions is just one example of a long proud history of this.
Its amazing how angry you are at these imagined leeches living off of all the hard working people. Have you ever been to a homeless shelter? Volunteered at a soup kitchen? There is certainly an element of people who will not work and often these are people riddled with mental problems and often substance abuse.
If your theory had any substance, you'd see high unemployment in socialist EU/Nordic nations, yet we compare to the US and Canada and have much better social nets for the poor. Iceland in fact until this recent crash held around 1% unemployment, and imported a lot of foreign workers to help fill the shortage. This is common in Nordic nations, which are very socialistic countries.
You'll also find wages and paid vacations are excellent in these nations, while you guys fight for 3 week paid vacation a year we get 5 weeks to start with, including tons of long weekends and extended work holidays around Christmas and New years. Our unions take about .7% of our wages and give us tons of benefits that most employers would not willingly provide if they didn't have a union to deal with.
Its amazing to me to see how we love to see business do well and workers do no better than they did 20-30 years ago in the US. All the while companies ship jobs overseas, downsize, and do everything in their power to maximize profits often at the expense of the workers.
Its a very sad situation, people don't want to fight for the average worker anymore but rather to protect and coddle the wealthy, big business and people who certainly don't need the help.
My entire post should have been in light green. I believe we'll call it tongue-in-cheek green. . It's working title was "Trying to get a rise out of people Lime"
Agreed. Love how the protesters are classified as just hippies, or unemployed bums and that because they don't have outlined objectives and demands, the whole movement it moot. If they dressed in suits and ties, then would they be worthy? If they handed out pamphlets stating each one of their objectives in point form with reasons and explanations for each one, then would they be worthy?
Part of the belief in the American Dream comes with the idea that you deserve the place you have in society, therefore everyone else deserves their's. It's a wildly inaccurate notion, but it soothes people.
Even if capitalism was completely fair and everyone got an equal shot in a society, the people of that society would still be propped up by its stable and fair government. A advantage no impoverished nation can afford. Look at all of us scummy first world people, leeching off a functioning government. We could never make it on our own in a real world of anarchy.
Reality is you are always going to depend on other people. You are always going to have to depend on the government. This whole culture of extreme self reliance is absurd and as idealistic as any Maoist in the 60s. We need each other, we need understanding, and we need to help those who fail. Not try to use their failure as some ego boost for those that didn't.
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