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Old 10-05-2022, 11:13 AM   #81
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Nah, Niemann is cheating both over the board and online. When Hikaru looked at how close to "perfect" some of his otb games were as opposed to other top-10 players (as evaluated by a chess engine), he had more games over 90% than Magnus or any other top-10 grandmaster by a longshot.

Another key point that Hikaru keeps coming back to is that a grandmaster doesn't need the computer to tell him all of the moves - a grandmaster will recognize a key point in the game, and just needs a simple computer evaluation of the most beneficial play. With just that one computer analysis of a position, Hikaru says no grandmaster would ever lose to another human.
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Old 10-05-2022, 11:17 AM   #82
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I'd like to live in a world where people can move on from who they were when they were 17. There has been no concrete statistical evidence for cheating in two years.
Has he expressed remorse, admitted why he did it, and clearly stated he would never do it again? I get not holding things from your youth and ancient past against you(if you admit it was wrong), but this isn't ancient. It was 2 years ago. Who says he hasn't just gotten better at hiding it? I just have trouble giving him the benefit of the doubt given the recency.

EDIT:
OK, I see he did apologize and express remorse. I still don't think this absolves him of suspicion.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...e-is-now-clean

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Old 10-05-2022, 11:28 AM   #83
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Nah, Niemann is cheating both over the board and online. When Hikaru looked at how close to "perfect" some of his otb games were as opposed to other top-10 players (as evaluated by a chess engine), he had more games over 90% than Magnus or any other top-10 grandmaster by a longshot.

Another key point that Hikaru keeps coming back to is that a grandmaster doesn't need the computer to tell him all of the moves - a grandmaster will recognize a key point in the game, and just needs a simple computer evaluation of the most beneficial play. With just that one computer analysis of a position, Hikaru says no grandmaster would ever lose to another human.



Completely unrelated but here is a funny video of Hikaru getting his ass kicked by Canadian GM (and Flames fan) Eric Hensen.



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Old 10-05-2022, 11:46 AM   #84
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Hans is very clearly a cheater I can’t imagine giving him the benefit of the doubt at this point.

Magnus did play a bad game against him at Sinqufield, but he also knew he was playing a cheater who he thought was cheating during the game. That’ll make anyone play poorly. I wish Magnus had just resigned when he realized Hans was cheating during that game.

You have a known cheater that has progressed more than any other player in the history of modern chess, but you’re going to give him the benefit of the doubt? I don’t get it.
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Old 10-05-2022, 12:05 PM   #85
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Curious how people think Hans actually cheated? An accomplice feeding him data? How?
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Old 10-05-2022, 12:09 PM   #86
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So far the only cheating that has been more or less "confirmed" from him is during online play, when it would obviously be pretty easy to do.
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Old 10-05-2022, 12:28 PM   #87
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Conjecture is very dangerous. His cheating online in the past (whether once or 100 times) does not correlate to his in person game with Magnus Carlsen.

No one thought anything of the game at the time, outside of Magnus Carlsen playing a bit out of character and making some errors.

It was only until Carlsen forfeited the tournament and put a cheat tweet accusation that the snowball effect started. We still have zero evidence of any cheating in the game.

So you have 2 problems, both of which are bad:

Hans Niemann did not cheat and a young promising chess player with a checkered past is being unfairly scarlet letter'ed due to unproven allegations.


Hans Neimann did cheat, but the method has not been found meaning that the integrity of the game may be compromised and cheating may be more rampant then ever known.

One problem is worst then the other. They better find the method fast if Neimman is going to be found guilty without any evidence. Carlsen needs to explain himself and his allegations, not the other way around.
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Old 10-05-2022, 12:31 PM   #88
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Now that computers surpassed human ability to play chess perfectly, who cares about two guys sitting in a room playing a game other than those two guys measuring their proverbial dicks? It is getting pretty darn close to who can multiply large numbers faster competition. Take the cameras away, lock the room and have them go at it without any communicating to the outside world. Problem solved. But no, we have cameras showing each move, commentators announcing those moves using stunned tone of voice and scandal about wi-fi anal beads making it very entertaining for others. Same goes for poker and any other game, of course.

My view on cheating in professional competitive events is not widely shared, but I'd say - either replace financial rewards to the winners with equal participation pay to make it "bragging rights only" (e.g. Stanley Cup play-offs) or accept cheating as necessary evil. Whenever large sums of money go to the winner, it promotes "winning by any means possible" mentality and differentiating what's legal/illegal and why it's legal/illegal in entertainment has always been arbitrary and unfair. What logic makes access to more funding, better training equipment, better nutrition and better technology legal for athletes from wealthier countries/backgrounds but taking certain chemical substances to achieve same goals illegal?

Fundamental premise and purpose of professional entertainment is entertaining. Nothing else. So, whatever makes it more entertaining...
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Old 10-05-2022, 12:39 PM   #89
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Something like a 5 minute tape delay would probably eliminate most useful cheating. Leave them locked in the room for 5 minutes after the game ends.
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Old 10-05-2022, 12:41 PM   #90
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Carlsen needs to explain himself and his allegations, not the other way around.
He's already indicated that he would if there was no threat of litigation against him, but Niemann doesn't want that.

Nakamura is also facing legal action from Niemann's lawyers for comments he made on stream while the news was coming out. More or less saying that the analysis Niemann was explaining during the post-game interview was clearly not the caliber you would expect from a 2700.

You've got super GMs like Levon, Alireza, Nakamura and Carlsen making comments about Niemann that show they don't trust him, not just one guy. Then you've got YouTube stars like Hansen and Naroditsky. There's a lot more smoke here than some guy being upset he got beat by a kid.

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Old 10-05-2022, 01:02 PM   #91
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He's already indicated that he would if there was no threat of litigation against him, but Niemann doesn't want that.

Nakamura is also facing legal action from Niemann's lawyers for comments he made on stream while the news was coming out. More or less saying that the analysis Niemann was explaining during the post-game interview was clearly not the caliber you would expect from a 2700.

You've got super GMs like Levon, Alireza, Nakamura and Carlsen making comments about Niemann that show they don't trust him, not just one guy. Then you've got YouTube stars like Hansen and Naroditsky. There's a lot more smoke here than some guy being upset he got beat by a kid.
Rightfully so. Hikaru has been milking this for content based on conjecture.
Due process exists for a reason.
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Old 10-05-2022, 01:03 PM   #92
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Finding out Calgary puck has so many chess enthusiast makes me want to organize a chess club on chess.com.
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Old 10-05-2022, 01:16 PM   #93
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I love to watch and play, but I’m terrible.
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Old 10-05-2022, 01:23 PM   #94
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I am not sure what will become of this. But I whipped up something quick if anyone wants to join. Lurkers weclome!

https://www.chess.com/club/calgary-puck
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Old 10-05-2022, 01:24 PM   #95
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Rightfully so. Hikaru has been milking this for content based on conjecture.
Due process exists for a reason.
Ha, who hasn’t? Agadmator, Gotham, Naroditsky, Hansen have all made a lot of content on this. They would be silly not to.

The only one I follow that hasn’t made hay off of this is Rosen, but he’s a special cat.
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Old 10-05-2022, 01:24 PM   #96
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Finding out Calgary puck has so many chess enthusiast makes me want to organize a chess club on chess.com.
I’d join.

I’m trash, but I would still join. Lower rated players need love too.
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Old 10-05-2022, 01:25 PM   #97
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I am not sure what will become of this. But I whipped up something quick if anyone wants to join. Lurkers weclome!

https://www.chess.com/club/calgary-puck
Do you have to pay to join? I'd probably jump in.

And we're all gentlemen/ladies here, so no cheating, right!?
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Old 10-05-2022, 01:27 PM   #98
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Do you have to pay to join? I'd probably jump in.

And we're all gentlemen/ladies here, so no cheating, right!?
I think I set it so that you can join with no condition? I don't know I've never started a chess club before.
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Old 10-05-2022, 01:27 PM   #99
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I am not sure what will become of this. But I whipped up something quick if anyone wants to join. Lurkers weclome!

https://www.chess.com/club/calgary-puck
I joined the club. Will be interesting to see how many we get.
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Old 10-05-2022, 01:28 PM   #100
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Do you have to pay to join? I'd probably jump in.

And we're all gentlemen/ladies here, so no cheating, right!?
You shouldn’t have to pay anything. You need a chess.com profile, but that’s free. You can upgrade to avoid ads and get access to more puzzles and lessons, but there should be no reason to do that unless you want to.
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