Fire Brad Treliving

[SebC]

I don't like the trade because I think it sets us backwards when we should be going forward. But notwithstanding player development, over two trades, we moved:


2015 pick #15
2015 pick #45
2015 pick #52
2015 pick #66
2010 pick #133

for

2013 pick #5
2015 pick #5

... That's pretty good.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Would you still feel this way if the Flames has traded this player who doesn’t give a crap for Lucic? For David Clarkson? Where is the line?

The return on one of the most valuable trade chips a team can have, while also giving away a great prospect, are why people are pissed. And rightfully so. Why is this so hard to understand?

Should we have just blindly accepted whatever return was offered and been happy about it?

We gave away the "rights" to a prospect, what value do you put on a prospect that probably wont sign with your team ? is this deal better after Fox signs with someone other than Carolina ? We gave away a player that was never going to play here so no real loss.

[The Professor]

Can we make a poll about this so that we can clearly see that in fact it is only a very small and very vocal minority that wants to fire Treliving? I would guess that it would be <5% of Flames Fans want him gone.

[soulchoice]

I dont want BT fired at this point. However if the team fails to make the playoffs again and Noah Hanifin, Lindholm and Hamonic dont have great years, then he absolutely should be let go. He has made some good and bad moves during his tenure here. So this is his final season to show whether his roster/coaching adjustments have made the team better or worse.

I definitely dont view him as a Wizard by any stretch, just as I never was a proponent of the trust in Sutter mantra when he was the GM.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Beninho

This thread is ridiculous and impulsive. It was a fair hockey trade, haven’t even seen how Lindholm and Hanifin will look on this team. This thread could look very stupid very soon.

This thread looks very stupid now.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by SebC

I don't like the trade because I think it sets us backwards when we should be going forward. But notwithstanding player development, over two trades, we moved:


2015 pick #15
2015 pick #45
2015 pick #52
2015 pick #66
2010 pick #133

for

2013 pick #5
2015 pick #5

... That's pretty good.

Ugh.. no offense, but who cares when these guys were drafted? It's only really relevant 1-2 years out from the draft. Otherwise lets just throw in #104 from 2011, maybe they will give us #12 from the same year? It looks really good then.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Ugh.. no offense, but who cares when these guys were drafted? It's only really relevant 1-2 years out from the draft. Otherwise lets just throw in #104 from 2011, maybe they will give us #12 from the same year? It looks really good then.

It's the asset management view, not the evaluating the trade view - making a good pick in Ferland is part of growing the pick's value as an asset. Obviously Gaudreau's value is not the same as when he was drafted. I already said that I don't like the trade.

[SoCalFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Adam Fox seems like he wasn't going to sign so I think that really diminishes his value. If his plan is to become a UFA then he's probably worth a 3rd round pick similar to Jimmy Vesey.

Put into perspective, Fox is worth WAY less than Jimmy Vesey.

The Sabres paid a 3rd for his rights and then he refused to sign with them and still became a UFA.

That means that it's unlikely anyone would copy the Sabres poor choice. Add to that, Vesey was one of the best wingers in the NCAA for two seasons in a row, and he's not had any kind of pro impact at all. Fox isn't even on Vesey's level, IMO.

Fox was basically valueless if he told the Flames he would not sign. Sucks, but happens. The fact that the Flames got actual value for him is absolutely fantastic.

Personally, Fox reminds me a lot of Tim Erixon. Anybody miss him these days?

[kyuss275]

Lol at this thread . The flames got better with the trade at the draft. Not sure why some posters think Hamilton is so great? He could skate like the wind but was not very good in his own end.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Pointman

The point is not so much about the return per we. But rather about this trade sealing the fact that Treliving went after wrong guy to build his defense around. It took him three good years to comprehend that one can't win with Hamilton as key player. And right after that he went after two highly touted youngsters from losing organization who apparently were not viewed as irreplaceable core by that organization. Which makes one doubt whether this time Treliving has got the right guys to win with or he misevaluate Lindholm and Hanifin as well.

Others have given you plenty of responses to your post, so I won't bother with that, but the bolded isn't correct. Talk of Treliving trying to move Hamilton has been going on for over a year and a half, so it's not 3 years, it's a year and a half before he realized that Dougie wasn't going to be the right guy and wasn't going to progress. You give a 22 year old the benefit of the doubt that he can improve and become something more (as we are doing now with Hanifin), but I think Treliving evaluated Hamilton's competitiveness accurately almost right away. I'm actually pretty confident in Treliving's evaluation skills. Everything that I see as a problem with this team or a positive, he often says the same things.

And he goes after good players that he can actually get. I'm sure he goes after the ones he can't get too, but thankfully he doesn't pay an arm and a leg to get them (Lucic, Hall for Larsson, etc.). As soon as I say that someone will bring up Hamonic, but mark my words, nobody has seen what Hamonic can really add to this club yet. There was a strong period down the stretch where he was extremely effective, but nobody cared because the rest of the team was so awful.

In short, Treliving is the least of this team's problems.

[awildermode]

[taxbuster]

This has to be one of the absolutely stupidest threads on CP...possibly ever (but then again....).

The deal was, apparently, in the works for weeks. Both men had lots of time to think and talk over their options. D'ya really think that BT just calls someone out of the blue and says "Hey - let's do a swap. How about Player A and B for your player C and D. Seems good to me." And then gets an answer in 15 seconds ..."Um. No. You gotta throw in Fox or we're not budging."

There is ample time for both guys to get input - and by all accounts BT talks with his team pretty regularly. Rather sure that "someone" might have pointed out to him that Dougie was a valuable piece of the Flames core and he might not want to trade him. You think that might not have come up?

Seriously. Give your heads a shake.

Winners and losers in trades aren't determined in 15-second sound bites, by talking heads on TV or by posters in CP. They are determined by one thing, and one thing only: results.

And we haven't seen those yet.

[cannon7]

Has this "Hamilton was shopped for a year" rumour been verified by anyone who would actually know? Or are we just accepting that as fact in our post mortem rationalizations?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Has this "Hamilton was shopped for a year" rumour been verified by anyone who would actually know? Or are we just accepting that as fact in our post mortem rationalizations?

Does it really matter one way or the other?

[AC]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Has this "Hamilton was shopped for a year" rumour been verified by anyone who would actually know? Or are we just accepting that as fact in our post mortem rationalizations?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1010581095803322368

No confirmation, but Freeway is connected.

[Dan403]

Stupid thread is stupid.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s odd that people have some set value in their mind, that may or may not be remotely realistic...

A lot of fans on this forum worked themselves up into a delirious state about the value of Hamilton. The disappointment and bitterness was inevitable.

[Dan403]

https://twitter.com/eduhatschek/stat...15335845076992

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

....

Winners and losers in trades aren't determined in 15-second sound bites, by talking heads on TV or by posters in CP. They are determined by one thing, and one thing only: results.

And we haven't seen those yet.

Agreed that we haven't seen results with Treliving's moves so far. After several years of Brad the team just finished a season that was boring as hell, the team moved backwards in the standings well out of the playoffs and has now traded away a young star defenseman entering his prime for two younger players that we hope will develop to reach Hamilton's level in a year or two. When are we going to see results for Tre's moves?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

A lot of fans on this forum worked themselves up into a delirious state about the value of Hamilton. The disappointment and bitterness was inevitable.

Hamilton did have huge trade value. I think people disappointed in the value we got back are underrating how valuable Hanifin and Lindholm are. I mean these kids were some of CAR's potential franchise players in their rebuild. Players like that rarely become available. But with their crazy new owner there was a unique opportunity to pick some important pieces off their roster.

I view acquiring Hanifin as being similar to NSH getting Jones or TB getting Sergachev or even when we originally got Dougie. Tougher to find a good comparable for Lindholm moving but I think a lot of people are guilty of looking at his points so far and thinking that's all he is vs what he will be next year and at his peak.

There's a very good chance we just got two, young core players. Flames have only drafted top 5 once? Well now we just picked up another couple top 5 picks. I know some people hate the fact we bring up their draft position but again its a good representation of their potential and upside. These kids aren't busts, nor are they big disappointments. They are right on track for being impact NHLers, young core players. They fit right in with the age group of a lot of key players.