Lazar: "It's become obvious to me that I'm an NHL player"

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by sa226

I know its a discussion, but I find it interesting how we can just so confidently peg Lazar as "done" when so much else has changed since he last suited up.

Apparently his confidence is as good as its ever been and the big club is not a Gulutzan trash heap. To me thats reason enough to give him another shot.

He may have hands of stone, but with his speed and energy I like him on the fourth line better than Czarnik or Mangiapane.

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Agreed. To the extent he was not productive last year, I'd also look at the change of linemates. I loved Stajan while he was here, but last year he was well below what Ryan brings this year, and more often than not Brouwer was there too, or other sluggish players. Ryan, Lazar and Hathaway would at least move up ice in a hurry. And Hathaway and Lazar would crash as well.

Lazar will drop them if need be as well.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The issue with Lazar is that he is a known commodity. After 250 plus games the Flames know what to expect. With some of the other call ups, they might show you something you didn't know they could do at an NHL level. Lazar doesn't bring much, and while he is only 23, there is not a ton of time for development. Barring an injury to Hathaway, I doubt we see him in Flames silks. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets dealt at the deadline to someone with no forward depth like the Avs.

We may 'know what to expect', but the difference between what we saw from him last year, and being a full time NHLer, is just a matter of confidence.

[Flash Walken]

One of the things that prevents Lazar from being effective at the NhL level isn't just base production, but the skills that feed into those tangible numbers and how they imoact the team on the ice.

What I'm saying is the reason Lazar struggles offensively isnt just because he has trouble in the offensive zone, it's because he struggles getting the puck TO the offensive zone with any kind of meaningful control or possession.

He has other attributes you want in a player, but I feel like a guy who is smaller and less fleet of foot like mangiapanne is altogether a better option because of his ability to make basic plays with the puck in all 3 zones. He may not be producing offense either, but he's able to make a play.

I just have never seen that from Lazar.

[redforever]

I might be wrong but I don't think Lazar has been called up this season?

He might not be a long term answer for the Flames but I would like to see how he plays for Peters before the Flames move on from him.

I discount and ignore most Flames stats and play while playing for GG.

[GioforPM]

Last year, on an inferior team, with inferior coaching, on a worse line, Lazar put up better numbers than Mangiapane (who TBF is a rookie) on a PPG basis. In PPG Czarnik is slightly higher than Lazar was and so is Dube. However, they again had more favorable circumstances this year, and none of them are as physical.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Last year, on an inferior team, with inferior coaching, on a worse line, Lazar put up better numbers than Mangiapane (who TBF is a rookie) on a PPG basis. In PPG Czarnik is slightly higher than Lazar was and so is Dube. However, they again had more favorable circumstances this year, and none of them are as physical.

And Lazar's numbers steadily (though slowly) improved throughout the year.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Last year, on an inferior team, with inferior coaching, on a worse line, Lazar put up better numbers than Mangiapane (who TBF is a rookie) on a PPG basis. In PPG Czarnik is slightly higher than Lazar was and so is Dube. However, they again had more favorable circumstances this year, and none of them are as physical.

I'd like to see the advanced stat comparison of Lazar and where he ranked on the roster last year and then how those rough numbers compare to the roster this year.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

If all 4 lines were outscoring other teams lines, we'd always be ahead and basically never lose.
There's a reason why they're -16:
-On road it is very likely they end up playing against top 2 lines here and there.
-At home time to time they will get caught against other teams top 2 lines.
-They're out there with our rookie D pair.
-Ratio of O zone start vs D zone starts.

I'd be curios to see if you can provide a breakdown of the rest of the leagues top 2 lines vs bottom 2 lines.

I'm not saying they're world beaters but this bottom 6 has been a pleasant surprise compared to years past. The fact that Janko, Ryan, Hathaway, Bennett are all key PKers, bodes well for top lines.

While you make some valid points, I'm not sure I can agree.



At the very least, I can tell you that Winnipeg's third line, with Lowry (3C) and Roslovic (4C) as a proxy, are exactly 0 at 5v5. For two teams expecting to contend for the cup, I think Winnipeg's bottom six could end up being the difference if we ran into them in a series.

I can also tell you that Jankowski's had insignificant effect by zone starts, at 52% ZSR he's still starting more often outside of the defensive zone.

And while Ryan, at 45% ZSR, is being used slightly "defensively", it's a misleading number because he has the lowest quality of competition on the entire team (naturally, Backlund takes on the tough assignments while Monahan and Jankowski split the rest of the matchups).

I can also tell you that Kylington has a +1 goal differential at 5v5 and while Valimaki doesn't, he's still only -4 which doesn't explain the stark dropoff to our bottom two forward lines.

Our bottom six could be improved. The four pieces that have been successful have been

- Bennett at 5v5 and on the PP
- Jankowski on the PK
- Ryan on the PP and PK
- Hathaway on the PK

and it's probably safe to assume Neal will continue to get looks until it's established that he's simply done as an NHLer, which is pretty scary but also a source for optimism if he finds his game.

But that still means Mangiapane/Dube/Jankowski/Ryan/Hathaway/Neal/Czarnik have all struggled 5v5. We should be exploring all options.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

We may 'know what to expect', but the difference between what we saw from him last year, and being a full time NHLer, is just a matter of confidence.

I would love to be wrong, but I have a difficult time believing this narrative, it will take a revelation to make him crack this roster. At best, he will get a look, but unless he takes the team by storm he has a brighter future on another team.

[agulati]

I was hoping Lazar would get the call up after the all-star break. Hopefully we get a look at him again this year. Can't help but root for this kid to succeed.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by agulati

I was hoping Lazar would get the call up after the all-star break. Hopefully we get a look at him again this year. Can't help but root for this kid to succeed.

I feel like they're waiting with him. They're baking him, if you will. If he's up in the NHL this year it's at/after the trade deadline.

[agulati]

I hope that is the case, and it is not that the organization has soured on him.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Buff

I feel like they're waiting with him. They're baking him, if you will. If he's up in the NHL this year it's at/after the trade deadline.

I think he stays in Stockton until their season is over. He will come up as a black ace should the Flames, as we suspect, still be playing playoff hockey.

Beyond that though, I think the team has moved on from thinking he can contribute much at this level. Calling up Magiapane over him kind of indicates this as well.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I think he stays in Stockton until their season is over. He will come up as a black ace should the Flames, as we suspect, still be playing playoff hockey.

Beyond that though, I think the team has moved on from thinking he can contribute much at this level. Calling up Magiapane over him kind of indicates this as well.

True. Quine and Dube are more likely to get called up for playing time before Lazar does.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I think he stays in Stockton until their season is over. He will come up as a black ace should the Flames, as we suspect, still be playing playoff hockey.

Beyond that though, I think the team has moved on from thinking he can contribute much at this level. Calling up Magiapane over him kind of indicates this as well.

Mangiapane doesn't require waivers to go back. Lazar does. It's a huge factor. Plus Lazar is a bigger cap hit. Treliving doesn't spend even small dollars easily.
Mangiapane was sent down merely as a money saving move over the break this last time.