What is Compete Level?

[Boreal]

I came across this article and found it interesting.

I think compete level is a huge part of what Bill Peters has brought to the team and has helped in purging their psychological fragility from under Gulutzam.

I think Bob Hartley brought some of this as well. I believe it’s a component of their 3rd period resilience both now and under Hartley. I believe Bob attributed the resilience it to fitness, showing he wasn’t really conscious of what he was doing. Maybe he was correct and being in shape enabled a high compete level. But he was ignorant of the law of diminishing returns of being a hard ass. A high compete level enabled them to be competitive and make the playoffs in 2014-15 if luck was with them, once the good fortune ended their compete level mattered less than their skill or lack there of.

It’s kind of like exercise & diet.

Eat well - no exercise... middling results
Compete - no skill... middling results

Exercise - eat like crap... middling results
Skill out the wazoo - no compete... middling results,

Exercise & eat well - maximize potential
Compete with skill - maximize potential

Peters seems to be conscious of this, as he stresses the importance of faceoffs in winning 50/50 puck battles. You win the puck battles you win your shift, if you win the majority of the shifts you have a great chance at winning the game. But Peters does this while being cognizant of other mental & physical components important in managing a game.

https://www.tampabay.com/blogs/light...the-lightning/

To coach Jon Cooper, a high compete level is about being a hard player to play against, not just because of skill level but because he will make you work.

"When you have the other team worried about you, that's compete," he said.

Assistant coach Derek Lalonde pointed to 50-50 puck battles as a way of specifically measuring compete level. When two players go after a loose puck, which one comes up with it? That's something the Lightning tracks, along with where the puck comes from and how the battle is generated: Did someone dump it in and then chase it down? Was it jarred loose on a hit or poked away?

Compete can't always be seen in statistics. Sometimes it's in the "eye test." Sometimes it's tying up a player to clear space for a teammate or something as seemingly small as making a good move to the keep the puck in the offensive zone and continue a play. Maybe that leads to a goal or forces the opponent into a longer shift that creates a breakdown.

[Gaudfather]

com·pete
/kəmˈpēt/
verb

strive to gain or win something by defeating or establishing superiority over others who are trying to do the same.


synonyms:
take part, play, be a contestant, be a competitor, participate, be involved, get involved, engage;

contend, vie, fight, battle, clash, tussle, grapple, wrestle, wrangle, jockey, wage war, cross swords, lock horns, go head to head;

strive against, struggle against, pit oneself against;
challenge, take on, try to beat;

[Kipper_3434]

Its a silly term used to pidgeon hole the most talented athletes in the world into categories that make little sense. Fans don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but they desperately want to. Many said Monahan lacked compete level. Despite his fitness and statistacal records. Turns out he was playing through 3 major injuries. Just a pointless term imo. Right up there with "intangibles", "truculence" and "cancer". Fans make stuff up to fit their narrative and analysts enable them.

[Enoch Root]

People often misinterpret, but I don't think they're making things up.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Its a silly term used to pidgeon hole the most talented athletes in the world into categories that make little sense. Fans don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but they desperately want to. Many said Monahan lacked compete level. Despite his fitness and statistacal records. Turns out he was playing through 3 major injuries. Just a pointless term imo. Right up there with "intangibles", "truculence" and "cancer". Fans make stuff up to fit their narrative and analysts enable them.

Is it silly? Being the most talented athlete but being unsuccessful is not what is expected. Why, when you see McDavid trying to blow past defenders and score, he seems to have a high compete level. When he lets the opposition skate in while not bothering to backcheck, there is a shortfall in his level of compete.

And consider the converse. It’s what made the 2003-04 Flames the rightful Cup winner.

[dammage79]

I always look at Michael Ferland as a real picture of the two sides of the same coin called compete level. On one side of the coin is Vancouver series Ferland where he was beast incarnate hitting and skating into everything. While being mentally engaged in watching where the puck is going reading plays and just overall "in the game".

Then theres the other side of the coin Ferland..... Lost, disengaged, taking half strides and barely keepin up with the play, no focus and not tracking pucks to the point where he just barely notices in time to even attempt to get his stick on the puck in time.

This is compete level. IMO, It is full mental engagement in the game. As a pro athlete, these players are all physically developed enough to play in the NHL, but your brain keeps you there.

Ferland for me, has always been a tale of two compete levels.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ pre- and post- contract Bouma also had two different compete levels

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I always look at Michael Ferland as a real picture of the two sides of the same coin called compete level. On one side of the coin is Vancouver series Ferland where he was beast incarnate hitting and skating into everything. While being mentally engaged in watching where the puck is going reading plays and just overall "in the game".

Then theres the other side of the coin Ferland..... Lost, disengaged, taking half strides and barely keepin up with the play, no focus and not tracking pucks to the point where he just barely notices in time to even attempt to get his stick on the puck in time.

This is compete level. IMO, It is full mental engagement in the game. As a pro athlete, these players are all physically developed enough to play in the NHL, but your brain keeps you there.

Ferland for me, has always been a tale of two compete levels.

Very true. I think he’s a victim of both Hartleys diminished hard ass returns and Gulatzans psychological frailty and inability to coach them with a consistent mental and physical effort.

Seeing him under Peters would have been interesting. He probably would have simplified his game similar to what Brindamour has done.

[dammage79]

Alexi Kovalev was a player that drove me nuts too. All time greatest player skill....minimal compete level. Dude just walked through his career on his talent and not fully comitting to using it to be probably one of the top 10 best ever. I'm dead serious, If Kovalev had compete level in his career, he'd be top 10 all time, instant 1st ballott HOF. The Ovechkin before Ovechkin.

[Gaskal]

"Uh I dunno, I play for the Oilers."

[Mickey76]

I think it is virtually impossible for most people to change very much. Perhaps a major spiritual conversion, or near death experience or something like that but most people have a certain level of competitiveness, motivation, drive, focus etc. I think occasionally a person can attend a self help seminar(Tony Robbins or something like that) and change themselves for a short period of time, just as I think a coach can sometimes resonate with certain players and get good results. And sometimes due to a random confluence of events the majority of players can buy into a system have immediate results and they become sort of fannatical about following the coaches philosophy. As an example Darryl Sutter seems very good at getting players to do this. Look at what he got out of the Flames and Kings. Those were not Stanley Cup teams. However it doesn’t last, you are simply not going to a have a meetings or hypnotize a player who is 25 a millionaire with a 7 year contract and say “hey Johnny you have great talent but aren’t quite motivated enough so to get great results we are going to spur you on to do better and unlock the secret that has been holding you back.” It simply doesnt work like that. Peters message is working, he is getting exceptional results from a good team. it won’t last forever it might not last till next year but hopefully can run through June.

[Boreal]

The mental aspects of winning puck battles & knowing when or when not to engage in them is what I find fascinating. Winning puck battles both requires and enables both hockey sense and physical assets/skills.

It’s the mental attention to detail on defense with the lack of emotional rewards that can be draining. As DeluxeMoustache mentioned, the game doesn’t stop with 20,000 people cheering if McDavid uses his elite speed to win puck battles on defence.

That being said... replacement level players should be tasked with this... his ability on offense is rarified air. However, to maximize the value he brings he doesn’t need to be a Selke candidate, just competent and not a defensive liability that negates some of the offense he brings.

That being said, guys like Datsyuk truly are awe inspiring.
https://builtforhockey.com/winning-p...les-in-hockey/

It’s not about hitting or out-muscling your opponent (although if you can do this, it will definitely help!).

It’s more about positioning yourself in a way that your opponent can no longer get the puck.

That’s it.

Instead of thinking ‘stick on puck’ first, think about how you can position your body between the puck and your opponent as quickly as possible.

The “stick on puck” concept should come naturally to you anyways—you’v most likely been doing it all of your hockey career. Keep doing that.

But make a conscious effort to think of placing your body between your opponent and the puck…that’s where the real success happens.

[Hackey]

Compete level is 100% a thing in my opinion. Similar to drive or ambition its an intangible to success. Some people fold under pressure and some thrive. Some guys care more than others. Some people give up when they get down some try even harder.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Compete level is 100% a thing in my opinion. Similar to drive or ambition its an intangible to success. Some people fold under pressure and some thrive. Some guys care more than others. Some people give up when they get down some try even harder.

This is all true, but I think compete level is something that is more teachable or coachable. Confidence plays a huge role in this in my opinion. Players may be hesitant to do certain things in certain situations or positions and coaches or fellow players can breath life or a compete level into them by instilling confidence that was previously unseen.

Kind of like when Fuhr told Iggy to shoot more.

In some respects a players compete level is similar to playing with “pace” or making plays and decisions at top speed.

For some players these things are intuitive & second nature. For others, how can a coach unlock the potential capabilities they see in a player?

[playmaker]

It’s kind of like exercise & diet.

Eat well - no exercise... middling results
Compete - no skill... middling results

Exercise - eat like crap... middling results
Skill out the wazoo - no compete... middling results,

Exercise & eat well - maximize potential
Compete with skill - maximize potential

No exercise + Eat like crap = Edmonton Oilers