Treliving

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Trading for Lucic had nothing to do with those trades not going through.

Didn’t say they did. But after failing those trades it’s the only real move he made, and it’s maybe one of the most useless and dumb trades I’ve ever seen

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

I’m not sure If this a question for a whole new thread.. but, is Calgary one of those places players just don’t want to sign in, And why? The weather isn’t as bad as most areas.


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Taxes. It's a big bottom line consideration.

The weather ain't as bad as Edmonton, Ottawa or Winnipeg, but it's not like it's Florida, California or Arizona - even Brouwer commented about not missing the winter right now and he is going to live in Calgary post-career.

Calgary is nice for a Canadian city but it ain't LA or NYC or fun places like Miami or Vegas, for the younger guys. It ain't like laid back Phoenix or San Jose for the older guys.

Then there are the guys who don't like high pressure marketplaces.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Didn’t say they did. But after failing those trades it’s the only real move he made, and it’s maybe one of the most useless and dumb trades I’ve ever seen

Tre shops Neal nobody wants him. Edmonton offers Lucic with some cap savings and you do it.

[Huntingwhale]

I hope he doesn't fire Bill Peters. I like Peters and clearly the problem is with the players and not the coach. However if it does come to the coach getting fired, the team will have had 3 coaches in 4 years. There best be some core players getting shipped out as well and not just the coach.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Didn’t say they did. But after failing those trades it’s the only real move he made, and it’s maybe one of the most useless and dumb trades I’ve ever seen

Well you kinda did say they did. Re-read your post. And, no, it wasn't a dumb trade. Lucic has contributed more than Neal did. Plus he's not an off-ice issue.

You tell me - what other options were out there? What players could have been acquired?

[Johnhitbox]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Taxes. It's a big bottom line consideration.



The weather ain't as bad as Edmonton, Ottawa or Winnipeg, but it's not like it's Florida, California or Arizona - even Brouwer commented about not missing the winter right now and he is going to live in Calgary post-career.



Calgary is nice for a Canadian city but it ain't LA or NYC or fun places like Miami or Vegas, for the younger guys. It ain't like laid back Phoenix or San Jose for the older guys.



Then there are the guys who don't like high pressure marketplaces.

I lived in many places in Canada over the past 37 years, and Calgary isn’t bad. I’ve lived in #### hole Grand Prairie for 8 years in the 90’s. New Brunswick in the late 80’s, and even a couple miles outside of Toronto in a town called deseronto. Calgary is pretty decent. Taxes and cost of living being a problem for sure.


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[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

I’m not sure If this a question for a whole new thread.. but, is Calgary one of those places players just don’t want to sign in, And why? The weather isn’t as bad as most areas.


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Weather not as bad as most areas where? Only Winnipeg and Edmonton worse in the NHL IMO. Still a lot of hockey players grow up in the prairies and you wouldn’t think they’d have an aversion to winter. But I’m sure once you make it to the show and your friends tell you about their lifestyle in different cities it is appealing.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Tre shops Neal nobody wants him. Edmonton offers Lucic with some cap savings and you do it.

No, you don’t. The cap savings were minimal and the eventual buyout is going to be way worse than any cap savings. Lucic isn’t an NHL worthy player, Neal is. Better off retaining a bunch of Neals salary in a trade than trading for the worst contract in the NHL. Defending the Lucic deal is insanity.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

I’m not sure If this a question for a whole new thread.. but, is Calgary one of those places players just don’t want to sign in, And why? The weather isn’t as bad as most areas.


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High taxes. Cold and dark most of the year. Boring city with very little nightlife. Poor economy. Insane travel schedule. No meaningful team history or culture. Godawful arena.

Is that enough? Should I keep going?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

I’m not sure If this a question for a whole new thread.. but, is Calgary one of those places players just don’t want to sign in, And why? The weather isn’t as bad as most areas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Calgary is a bottom 5 market in terms of desirability for most players.

1. Brutal travel schedule. Tons of extra time flying, customs etc.
2. Fish bowl. Flames are the biggest show in town so the pressure is high. I wonder how Johnny feels with fans all over twitter saying we need to trade him and big media outlets speculating on it.
3. Small market. Calgary is a relatively small city compared to many of the other NHL cities. Places like Toronto, Chicago, LA, NY have much more to offer for a young millionaire
4. Weather. It is Canada and cold during most of the season
5. Building. There is not a super nice practice facility near the rink or a state of the art building. This is coming but still 4-5 years away.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well you kinda did say they did. Re-read your post. And, no, it wasn't a dumb trade. Lucic has contributed more than Neal did. Plus he's not an off-ice issue.

You tell me - what other options were out there? What players could have been acquired?

Lucic has contributed nothing. Red glasses to the extreme. Another option was to not trade him at all or buyout. The answer is not trade for Lucic, that I know.

[Johnhitbox]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Calgary is a bottom 5 market in terms of desirability for most players.



1. Brutal travel schedule. Tons of extra time flying, customs etc.

2. Fish bowl. Flames are the biggest show in town so the pressure is high. I wonder how Johnny feels with fans all over twitter saying we need to trade him and big media outlets speculating on it.

3. Small market. Calgary is a relatively small city compared to many of the other NHL cities. Places like Toronto, Chicago, LA, NY have much more to offer for a young millionaire

4. Weather. It is Canada and cold during most of the season

5. Building. There is not a super nice practice facility near the rink or a state of the art building. This is coming but still 4-5 years away.

Now tell me how you really feel. 2004-2007 must have been the perfect storm for Alberta. It was the place to be, with the boom and all.


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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Lucic has contributed nothing. Red glasses to the extreme...

Go ahead and make your point, but these sorts of hyperbolic swipes at other posters is not helpful.

Another option was to not trade him at all or buyout. The answer is not trade for Lucic, that I know.

Were these other options even there? It sure sounds like the team and the player were done with each other. I don't think there was a possibility of Neal coming back. And it also seems likely that ownership balked at a buyout. With neither of these options available, what recourse is there?

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

I’m not sure If this a question for a whole new thread.. but, is Calgary one of those places players just don’t want to sign in, And why? The weather isn’t as bad as most areas.


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Its not as bad as a Winnipeg, Buffalo or Edmonton, but its probably still a bottom 10 destination in the league.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Go ahead and make your point, but these sorts of hyperbolic swipes at other posters is not helpful.


Were these other options even there? It sure sounds like the team and the player were done with each other. I don't think there was a possibility of Neal coming back. And it also seems likely that ownership balked at a buyout. With neither of these options available, what recourse is there?

Being that I am not the GM of the Flames or any other NHL team it is impossible for me to say. But I know that trading for Lucic wasn’t the move. Retain all the salary you have to in a trade if you have to, it’s still better than the move that was made. He took his biggest mistake, signing Neal to a long term deal, and somehow managed to make it even a little bit worse. I’m not giving him a pass for that like so many here want to.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

I think it’s legitimate to ask some hard questions about his performance in calendar year 2019.

As of January 1, you could give him credit for building a contender and putting the team on solid footing. But since then he’s had a horrible year. Standing pat at the the trade deadline was obviously a big mistake. The Lucic for Neal trade is a disaster and will handcuff this team for years. And I’m not convinced that our GM and front office should be let off the hook for the “almost” deals for Zucker and Kadri.

The only positive move this year was re-signing Tkachuk, but even that was sloppy and dragged on for too long. It created needless drama and restricted his ability to do any other deals.

Something’s wrong with the team. We saw it exposed in the playoffs last year and it has continued into this season. I’m not sure that Tre has his finger on the pulse of this locker room.

Being accountable is fun when times are good...let’s see if he holds himself accountable for the first quarter of this season and does something about it.

You can't hold the Tkachuk signing against Treliving at all. The entire league was doing the same thing with similar players, it's not simply a Flames issue at all. Yes, there is something wrong with this team and it's the horrendous RW depth and lack of team speed. These were the same issues in the playoffs last year and they continue to shoehorn what the coaching staff can do to turn this ship around. That you can pin on the GM if you choose.

A great activity for a fan is to scan the lineups of the top 5 or 6 teams in the league and you'll quickly realize that outside of Johnny, Tkachuk and Lindholm, the Flames just don't have enough game breaking skill to make up for the complete AHL level bottom 6: Lucic, Janko, Reider, Rinaldo, Frolik, simply do not cut it. Monahan is also simply not what a contending team needs in a top line centre at this point either. His "improved three-zone play" this year is now up to average at best from terrible, and in achieving this, he's lost his one true asset - finishing plays in tight.

There are just way too many issues that don't even touch on the compete level and hate to lose comments the coaching staff is throwing around at will these days. Unless something significant happens via a trade, I don't see this season turning around, but you can hope that a bad year will net the team a hail mary draft pick that injects a lottery pick or significant deadline move to turn things around for next season. One thing is for sure, this better not fall on the scalp of another coaching staff.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

I lived in many places in Canada over the past 37 years, and Calgary isn’t bad. I’ve lived in #### hole Grand Prairie for 8 years in the 90’s. New Brunswick in the late 80’s, and even a couple miles outside of Toronto in a town called deseronto. Calgary is pretty decent. Taxes and cost of living being a problem for sure.


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None of those places have NHL teams.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Being that I am not the GM of the Flames or any other NHL team it is impossible for me to say. But I know that trading for Lucic wasn’t the move. Retain all the salary you have to in a trade if you have to, it’s still better than the move that was made. He took his biggest mistake, signing Neal to a long term deal, and somehow managed to make it even a little bit worse. I’m not giving him a pass for that like so many here want to.

It's not a bit worse. It's a bit better.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's not a bit worse. It's a bit better.

Na, it isn’t. But we’ll just have to disagree there. Lucic isn’t an NHL caliber player far as I can see.

[Toonage]

Maybe a bit worse on the ice (comparatively speaking), definitely a bit better for ownership money wise, probably a lot better in the room.

Everyone, well, not wins necessarily....