[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Billionaires hate any oversight responsible for ensuring the public good and not revenue generation.

Anyone spending a boat load of cash wants a good degree of control over where a project is going.

City or the CSEC.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Anyone spending a boat load of cash wants a good degree of control over where a project is going.

City or the CSEC.

Certainly. It would seem prudent for the party taking on the liability of owning the building (including liability for major structural repairs, flood insurance premiums/ultimate rebuild responsibility, etc.)

Of course, since the bulk of the "boat-load" of cash from CSEC is actually coming from the facility fee, it certainly is important that we make sure they are actually able to deliver on that revenue front.


I'm actually watching the July 2021 council meeting - will make a post with a bunch of notes in the coming days. It's actually fascinating to watch it now with a little hindsight and trickles of details that have come out since.

[cral12]

Not sure if previously posted; well said by Jasmine imo - glad to have this former Olympian on ycc cc.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1482598207456628736

[Northendzone]

maybe this is just because i am a pessimist by nature, but it seems hard to imagine sitting in a new facility in calgary for at least 8 more years.

as it seems we will need to wait another year or so to see what happens with covid, then you need to find some folks with a couple of hundred million lying about, then you may need to go back to the drawing board.......but who knows, maybe thier is a group out there who can make the msot of this moment and swoop in and seal the deal and get the shovels in the ground

[nik-]

I feel like every response to Sean Chu should just be "Hey, didn't you try to #### a child?"

How the hell is this guy still trying to grandstand? Zero shame.

[powderjunkie]

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

maybe this is just because i am a pessimist by nature, but it seems hard to imagine sitting in a new facility in calgary for at least 8 more years.

as it seems we will need to wait another year or so to see what happens with covid, then you need to find some folks with a couple of hundred million lying about, then you may need to go back to the drawing board.......but who knows, maybe thier is a group out there who can make the msot of this moment and swoop in and seal the deal and get the shovels in the ground

I would think by June we'll have a really good sense of what the next 12-ish months look like on this file.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by nik-

I feel like every response to Sean Chu should just be "Hey, didn't you try to #### a child?"

How the hell is this guy still trying to grandstand? Zero shame.

I'm just now reading up on this guy

wtf

how haven't they forced a byelection

[kermitology]

If you put his sexual assault of a minor aside (Jesus, can you believe I just wrote that?) he's also so unbelievably uninformed AND HE'S ON COUNCIL. In the council questioning of city administration on this matter he made comments/asked questions that made it clear he was relying on Corbella for his information on the matter when he should be relying on FIRST HAND INFORMATION that was given to him AS A COUNCILLOR. The man is as much unfit for his job because of his incompetence as much as he is unfit because of his past.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

maybe this is just because i am a pessimist by nature, but it seems hard to imagine sitting in a new facility in calgary for at least 8 more years.

as it seems we will need to wait another year or so to see what happens with covid, then you need to find some folks with a couple of hundred million lying about, then you may need to go back to the drawing board.......but who knows, maybe thier is a group out there who can make the msot of this moment and swoop in and seal the deal and get the shovels in the ground

I’m trying to really understand what the grand benefit of having the new arena is, and I haven’t really been presented with a lot of compelling reasons. My wife’s family came to town in December for the Bruins game and wondered why we needed a new building. Here’s what I am under the impression on the “need” for it, is this an accurate fulsome list or are there more?

- bathroom lines are faster or negligible
- roof maybe doesn’t collapse one day? Maybe? Is this true? Read something about the roof crumbling
- building is nicer to look at

That about sum it up? And for this we get wildly increased ticket prices (see: Oilers), less parking, and more construction for a few years.

Seems like the Flames and their owners get a lot of cool stuff but just not sure what average Joe guy gets.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I’m trying to really understand what the grand benefit of having the new arena is, and I haven’t really been presented with a lot of compelling reasons. My wife’s family came to town in December for the Bruins game and wondered why we needed a new building. Here’s what I am under the impression on the “need” for it, is this an accurate fulsome list or are there more?

- bathroom lines are faster or negligible
- roof maybe doesn’t collapse one day? Maybe? Is this true? Read something about the roof crumbling
- building is nicer to look at

That about sum it up? And for this we get wildly increased ticket prices (see: Oilers), less parking, and more construction for a few years.

Seems like the Flames and their owners get a lot of cool stuff but just not sure what average Joe guy gets.

More luxury suites.$$$$$

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I’m trying to really understand what the grand benefit of having the new arena is, and I haven’t really been presented with a lot of compelling reasons. My wife’s family came to town in December for the Bruins game and wondered why we needed a new building. Here’s what I am under the impression on the “need” for it, is this an accurate fulsome list or are there more?

- bathroom lines are faster or negligible
- roof maybe doesn’t collapse one day? Maybe? Is this true? Read something about the roof crumbling
- building is nicer to look at

That about sum it up? And for this we get wildly increased ticket prices (see: Oilers), less parking, and more construction for a few years.

Seems like the Flames and their owners get a lot of cool stuff but just not sure what average Joe guy gets.

Improved "end of trip" facilities for the players...aka gym, dressing room, etc.

...but yeah they're going to decrease the number of fans in the building from 19,289 to something in the 18,000 range. The revenue goes up 50%+ though.

That revenue is coming from somewhere and the fans are a big part of it. There's a reason the ownership wants the city to pay for a good part of the building, instead of just letting the city buy part of the team to subsidize operational losses and keep the 'Dome.

[jammies]

1. CSEC tells the City they don't want to pay their agreed-upon share of escalating costs and they will therefore pull out of the deal.
2. Mayor tweets out her understanding of what CSEC told the City. CSEC says nothing directly to contradict her version of events.
3. CSEC pulls out of the deal.
4. Somehow people assume #2 is relevant to the causal link between #1 and #3.
5. "Both sides, many sides".

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I’m trying to really understand what the grand benefit of having the new arena is, and I haven’t really been presented with a lot of compelling reasons. My wife’s family came to town in December for the Bruins game and wondered why we needed a new building. Here’s what I am under the impression on the “need” for it, is this an accurate fulsome list or are there more?

- bathroom lines are faster or negligible
- roof maybe doesn’t collapse one day? Maybe? Is this true? Read something about the roof crumbling
- building is nicer to look at

That about sum it up? And for this we get wildly increased ticket prices (see: Oilers), less parking, and more construction for a few years.

Seems like the Flames and their owners get a lot of cool stuff but just not sure what average Joe guy gets.

It’s never been said outright, but if you have read between the lines, I would guess that there’s a major structural rehabilitation of the roof that’s coming up at some point in the next ten years. And the risk of not doing it is that the roof could be condemned by some required inspection.

The Saddledome really isn’t designed to put a different kind of roof on it either.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

More luxury suites.$$$$$

The new building is set to have fewer suites than the Saddledome.

[topfiverecords]

I hope the new building has more sweets than the Saddledome over more suites than the dome.

[Gemnoble]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I’m trying to really understand what the grand benefit of having the new arena is, and I haven’t really been presented with a lot of compelling reasons. My wife’s family came to town in December for the Bruins game and wondered why we needed a new building. Here’s what I am under the impression on the “need” for it, is this an accurate fulsome list or are there more?

- bathroom lines are faster or negligible
- roof maybe doesn’t collapse one day? Maybe? Is this true? Read something about the roof crumbling
- building is nicer to look at

That about sum it up? And for this we get wildly increased ticket prices (see: Oilers), less parking, and more construction for a few years.

Seems like the Flames and their owners get a lot of cool stuff but just not sure what average Joe guy gets.

We get more concerts and events, the Saddledomes roof, in addition to coming to the end of its lifespan, is a hindrance to a lot of concert lighting systems and stage setups.

It'd probably be 5 more concerts a year if at all.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Gemnoble

We get more concerts and events, the Saddledomes roof, in addition to coming to the end of its lifespan, is a hindrance to a lot of concert lighting systems and stage setups.

It'd probably be 5 more concerts a year if at all.

Yeah, doesn’t seem like a real great value proposition for fans does it?

Meanwhile the owners make a cool $100MM off of it and the city pays $250MM?

Seems weird.

They need to start making arenas and stadiums that will last 100+ years, not 40. Kinda dumb.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

They need to start making arenas and stadiums that will last 100+ years, not 40. Kinda dumb.

While some buildings DO last longer, most have a life span of 40-50 years. We built a school back in 2000 and our (internal) building expert of many years said not to "expect" more than that without issues. The problems are manifold...and you can see this easily in the rebuild of the Parliament Buildings. We had the pleasure of being one of the last groups through in 2017. The "fix" on them...which will cost billions, will take 10-15 YEARS (go figure!) because the old buildings simply were not built with current usage and designs, needs and technologies in mind.

The Dome suffers from the same issues, even though much younger.

Not sure that a 100-year lifespan is a "plannable" thing. The Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers on here can comment more appropriately, I'm sure.

[timun]

You can make just about any building last for centuries, it's just a question of maintenance. Part of that maintenance entails replacing things wholesale when they wear out, because parts of buildings do have limited lifespans. It's no different than your house needing a new roof every couple decades, new windows, new siding, new furnace, new water heater, etc., just on a much bigger scale with a bigger building. Sometimes those replacement costs become so significant that it begs the question: "Why don't we just tear this down and build a new one instead?" (Again, not unlike houses that are torn down.)

In the case of the Saddledome it's not a question of the building physically falling apart or being unsuitable for hosting 19,289 fans watching hockey—it's just fine at doing that. (Arguably a lot better at that than the proposed new "event centre" design, honestly...) It's a question of not having the back-of-house space that newer arenas have. More circulation space, more space for Fan Attic shops and concessions and more Dodge Rams parked in the concourse.

That said I was shocked when I saw the plans for the new building. I couldn't believe how hokey the suites are, other than Murray Edwards's box at centre ice. There are fewer of them than in the Saddledome, and they're more akin to the Saddledome's original boxes up at the top of the 200s than the newer (ca. 1995) ones at the 100 level. They don't even have their own washrooms!

I'd have to dig up floor plans at the office but I don't think the new building had any more toilets and urinals than the Saddledome either, which actually doesn't surprise me in the least.