[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I would like to thank both the City of Calgary and CSEC for effectively sucking the life from the enjoyment of the Flames and NHL hockey generally.

Well done, you can both be proud.

You haven’t visited the FOI threads after a loss, have you?

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Based on the timeline released the city was willing to fund the solar panels and the entirety of the roadwork around the event centre, with the CESC being on the hook for just the remaining $6M. This is despite CESC agreeing to take on cost overruns by firing the CMLC. CESC also had ample time to object to the climate change and roadwork during appeal periods but choose not to do so.

Appeal to what end? Wasting more time and resources?

Both sides acted like petulant children and here we are. No new building.

[Scary Eloranta]

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...the-whole-city

Agree 100%!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reggie Dunlop]

Murray Edwards doesn’t live in Calgary anymore: he has decamped to posher surroundings in Europe. But he obviously still has a grip on what goes on in this town. Perhaps he doesn’t like the fact that Jyoti Gondek was recently elected mayor and one of the first things she and city council did was declare a climate emergency.

Maybe he wanted to put Gondek in her place so she would understand who really runs this city. But the bluff didn’t work. There was no genuflecting with the offer of more money from city hall. So the Flames owners set fire to the deal and now it’s dead.

Gillian Steward in the Star

[Manhattanboy]

Interesting tidbit I heard today is that the Tssu Tina band and their development partner Canderal are interested.

CSEC could build whatever they want free of any silly City mandated climate mitigation initiatives etc.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Interesting tidbit I heard today is that the Tssu Tina band and their development partner Canderal are interested.

CSEC could build whatever they want free of any silly City mandated climate mitigation initiatives etc.

Sounds like a great deal for the city. $0 dollars, flames stay and as land is developed downtown it will pay off its development sooner.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Interesting tidbit I heard today is that the Tssu Tina band and their development partner Canderal are interested.

CSEC could build whatever they want free of any silly City mandated climate mitigation initiatives etc.

So... They save 5 million on solar panels but spend an extra 300 million for the rest of the arena? Or is Tsu Tina offering to fund half the build and give them the land to boot? And put it by a Costco? This makes no sense.

[Manhattanboy]

Heard it was the Band that was interested. No idea what they would be willing to offer up or if CSEC would even consider a JV with them.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by GGG

Sounds like a great deal for the city. $0 dollars, flames stay and as land is developed downtown it will pay off its development sooner.

Depends how important is it to the city to have the arena in East Village. Does the arena being there truly kickoff the prolonged revitalization of that area? Do they invest the costly amount of money into refurbishing the Saddledome, or build a smaller scale event centre instead to satisfy the Stampede? Or simple tear down dome, and have nothing at all since market is not big enough to have two competing venues? Would the revenue lost by not having the arena there be made up by alternative options?

Originally Posted by Major Major

So... They save 5 million on solar panels but spend an extra 300 million for the rest of the arena? Or is Tsu Tina offering to fund half the build and give them the land to boot? And put it by a Costco? This makes no sense.

Most likely wouldn't be at the Costco area. It would be by the casino if this was to be a thing.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Interesting tidbit I heard today is that the Tssu Tina band and their development partner Canderal are interested.

CSEC could build whatever they want free of any silly City mandated climate mitigation initiatives etc.

For those that no longer live in Calgary, are we talking about the land where the casino off of Glenmore/Sarcee is located?

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Gillian Steward in the Star

I know it's an "Opinion" piece, but that's up there with Eric Francis for sensationalist journalism.

Such an overly simplified piece that fails to being anything new or interesting to the discussion.

Yet I clicked on it.

Why!!!!!!

[Manhattanboy]

Brutal article. What a laugh.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

For those that no longer live in Calgary, are we talking about the land where the casino off of Glenmore/Sarcee is located?

Wherever there's 50-70 acres for a parking lot, anyway.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Heard it was the Band that was interested. No idea what they would be willing to offer up or if CSEC would even consider a JV with them.

Getting the First Nations involved may also unlock some provincial and federal grant money in a roundabout way.

Access would be decent with ring road, land and parking not an issue, the casino would ramp (even if it wasn’t at the casino, could park at casino and shuttle) up as would the other planned development (which there is plenty planned and plenty more in the next decade) wherever they put it along the SWRR.

But CESC would likely not get much outside building revenues and of course that would be a hotly debated topic on that split, nevermind the construction costs. But it would also eliminate some COC barriers too and there’s a spite factor too.

And it would put a severe damper on the East Village plan (are we up to Version 5.0 in last 35 years?)

[Cappy]

An arena on Tsuu Tina land would be an all out colossal risk for the Flames. There is absolutely no way that would happen.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by browna

Getting the First Nations involved may also unlock some provincial and federal grant money in a roundabout way.

Access would be decent with ring road, land and parking not an issue, the casino would ramp (even if it wasn’t at the casino, could park at casino and shuttle) up as would the other planned development (which there is plenty planned and plenty more in the next decade) wherever they put it along the SWRR.

But CESC would likely not get much outside building revenues and of course that would be a hotly debated topic on that split, nevermind the construction costs. But it would also eliminate some COC barriers too and there’s a spite factor too.

And it would put a severe damper on the East Village plan (are we up to Version 5.0 in last 35 years?)

Originally Posted by Cappy

An arena on Tsuu Tina land would be an all out colossal risk for the Flames. There is absolutely no way that would happen.

Plus, for CSEC (and all sports teams these days now) it's not necessarily about the venue itself. It's about the surrounding real estate. CSEC is not gonna go to the Tsuu Tina route since they don't get to have the surrounding land for development and revenue from it. Upfront it may be less money they would have to put in, but in the long run, they're leaving a lot of money on the table.

Tsuu Tina - just like relocation - would be just a leverage play.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Cappy

An arena on Tsuu Tina land would be an all out colossal risk for the Flames. There is absolutely no way that would happen.

Ask Ottawa or Phoenix how that sweet deal outside the core area of town is going.

Flames aren’t playing there. They need to be central with public transit access. Are people going to deal with Uber, Cabs and a Bus that will take you to Chinook station? Its a massive lift to get 18K people out, half of whom should not be driving.

So instead people will go to a bar or stay home.

Then we get into what the Flames are after. Land development. That wouldn’t happen. It would be arena with zero entertainment district or condos.

Good on the band for trying but I just can not see location working either.

[FlamesAddiction]

It would be a good idea for the Nation I would think. They could lease out land around it and eventually develop a decent commercial area. Some of the First Nations around Vancouver have been doing this and have seen huge economic benefits.

I personally don't think the eastern edge of their territory is that far from Calgary's core that it would prevent people from going there. It's certainly not Kanata and Ottawa.

They should include LRT expansion to that area though, if it isn't already.

[taxbuster]

CSEC will not build on Tsuu T'ina IMO without the same kinds of guarantees that "Indian Affairs" put up for the developments in Redwood Meadows. When that project started, RBC (IIRC) was the lead lender and they refused to do any mortgages unless the (then) Department of Indian Affairs agreed to underwrite any losses from dispositions of land undertaken in an inimical fashion. (Think the folks on VanIsle who were chucked out of their leased land and homes fifteen or twenty years ago and ultimately took chainsaws to them....).

Massive risk because the laws of the RoC do not (mostly) apply. Now I think the Tsuu T'ina are a pretty savvy band as they have some young and smart professional folks in their midst advising them, but that is a heck of a disadvantage to overcome.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

For those that no longer live in Calgary, are we talking about the land where the casino off of Glenmore/Sarcee is located?

Probably southwest of there, along the new ring road, near where their arena is now. They already have a Costco and are developing another 5-10 acres of commercial property.

But it’s problematic. Access issues, CSEC would have to negotiate more land for their own commercial development, no transit, and no municipal government contribution.