[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Construction always has changes happening until the final handover. Considering this was a constantly evolving rendering I doubt the final design was 100%.

This seems pretty cut and dry, the Flames can't afford to build the building in the current environment, due to cost escalation and a stipulation that they have to shoulder any increase.

They picked a handful of agreed to items in the cost they knew would seem like bull#### to the general public and used those to bludgeon the city in the media.

They want a cash injection from the taxpayers so they aren't on the hook for spiraling material and eventual labor increases. We could see 5-10% inflation in 2022 the way things are going in Alberta, compounding increases over a few years of construction and it adds up fast.

Oh they can afford it...

I mean of all the organisations in Calgary to believe over the city, the Flames are at the bottom of that list. Love the team, but they ran a mayoral candidate against nenshi because it was worth it to get a dirty deal. How do you comeback from that?

Ha...glad calgary in the end wasn't small town enough to fall for it. Eventually the media and public opinion will swing against the flames on this latest misstep.

It makes me sad, because it I know the team I've loved since I was a kid is likely to embarrass me over the next twelve months...and it won't be because of the on ice.🤦

Go away Murray.

[Rejean31]

I hope everyone in this arena debacle, on both sides, gets a huge lump of coal in their stockings this year!! Calgarians deserve so much better than this ongoing #### show!!

[Finger Cookin]

The shortened COVID seasons really killed my already waning interest in the Flames and NHL hockey in general. This season felt like a return to normal...for a while. This news combined with the cancellations has killed my interest in yet another season. Maybe next year will be another resurgence?

Oh no, an online fan with no season tickets who doesn't really the support the Flames in any kind of meaningful financial way might grow even more distant because of a potential arena deal falling apart. I know, I know. It's Shakesperean in it's tragedy.

[tkflames]

City picks up the cost on the damn roadway/sidewalk issues with money they were putting forward anyways.

3rd party installs the solar system on a favorable (could be tax credit or provincial incentive or strict operating cost) cost repayment scheme coming from the maintenance budget of the power bill whereby the city owns the system by 2035. This makes the infrastructure and building carbon neutral by 2035 instead of 2050.

Bam...back in business...

There is no reason this should have been brought back to the tax payers...with this level of frustration. This should have been solved by a competent set of project managers and parties working in good faith...

The above is one solution of many that would work with the right level of engagement...

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Good post. Ticketmaster is literally the scum of the earth. How they can get away charging the fees that they do and monopolizing the entire entertainment industry is beyond me. As Groot states, there has to be a better system to lower processing fees or at least divert those processing fees back into the facility itself. Ticketmaster should not exist.

In the digital age they really should not exist..

[BagoPucks]

I actually think the uncertainty added by the current state of the world is only highlighting that the "smarts" in our society was unable to define and quantify the benefits of such a deal. Some of it is uncertainty, some of it is human and some of it is just is. Would it be nice to have a new building? Yes. Hope we can learn from this and move the city into the next stage of its growth. Sucks.

[marsplasticeraser]

Alternative take on this whole situation. In 20 years we will be happy the Dome is still here. It is a unique part of the city, and will become a bit of history in the city.

Fans will be satisfied with a reno that adds a add a large, multi-story concourse beside the existing dome, and good sight lines will be retained inside the bowl. The flames are able to grow their in-game revenues through better concessions and experiences to the same level as a new arena would.

A new arena is never built as the incremental revenue of 50 more luxury suites doesn’t justify the $700 million expense

[BagoPucks]

I have always been a fan of an option of keeping the dome. It is such a cool part of the city and heritage that was.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by tkflames

City picks up the cost on the damn roadway/sidewalk issues with money they were putting forward anyways.

3rd party installs the solar system on a favorable (could be tax credit or provincial incentive or strict operating cost) cost repayment scheme coming from the maintenance budget of the power bill whereby the city owns the system by 2035. This makes the infrastructure and building carbon neutral by 2035 instead of 2050.

Bam...back in business...

There is no reason this should have been brought back to the tax payers...with this level of frustration. This should have been solved by a competent set of project managers and parties working in good faith...

The above is one solution of many that would work with the right level of engagement...

Yes, but the CSEC is trying to get more than that. You're solutioning for when both parties are negotiating and acting in good faith, but what is your solution when one party is looking for any way out of the deal?

[bomber317]

Originally Posted by Locke

I wonder if there any IT guys on CP that have ever had experience with a client or partner changing the parameters of a project on the fly?

My understanding is that everyone is a huge fan of moving goalposts. The stationary ones are just too easy to hit.

Is this sarcasm?

Changes happen all the time on projects. Change orders are submitted for them or the project is done iteratively with revisions.

In my entire 20 year career, I've only had 1 project go from start to finish without any changes. And that project was a 3 month project where the scope was small.

[1991 Canadian]

Re: Saving on Ticketmaster fees

I guarantee there is an implied "sure, you can go it yourself for hockey ticket sales to save on the fees, but we'll actively avoid booking major concerts at your venue" threat from Ticketmaster.

Ticketmaster/LiveNation has 10,852 artists/comics/touring events affiliated with them... and that is just the ones that start with the letter A.

https://www.livenation.com/artist-sitemap/a

Even if Flames and the city wanted to, there is no way they could tell Ticketmaster/LiveNation to go pound sand.

Isn't Capitalism fun?

[cral12]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Well that was a fun read ... not.

Hate commenting until I've read everything for fear of repeating what's already been said.

So I'll keep it to this ...

Will never cease to amaze me how people pick 100% one side or extremes in something that has so many angles to it.

Additionally amazed how people can read the same information and only see what seems to support their side.

This, 100%!

[442scotty]

Both parties should go back to the original 50/50 cost split and move on. The biggest loser is the city if this doesn’t proceed. Just one more reason not to go downtown with no arena/entertainment district. Oh, but I forgot! We can go to the LIBRARY! Oh I can’t stand the excitement!

[cral12]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Can’t wait for Notley to get re-elected. She’ll probably ask that the current arena be torn down due to the climate emergency. Flames will play out of the Crescent Heights out door rink until further notice.

With how many premiers before Notley did the new Calgary Cancer Centre get announced than cancelled since at least 2005? At least 3 since I've worked here (well, at TBCC). Notley announced it and delivered (2023 opening). (With K-enema now trying to take credit).

[cral12]

This is an extremely nuanced issue, far from black and white...

Seems like a decent investment for Flames ownership, no?...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1473781396938317828

[cral12]

Also highly recommend following CP's own Freeway for arena related breakdowns...

Great segment with Steinberg on 960 yest:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1473764022881341440

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by krazycanuck

Bring Enmax in to pay for and install the solar panels. They keep the revenue generated from the electricity and work in some sort of branding to help provide them benefit in the up front capital.

Just stick "Enmax Solar Roof" in giant letters on the top and be done with it, but Scotiabank or whomever gets the main rights but not want to share.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Locke

I wonder if there any IT guys on CP that have ever had experience with a client or partner changing the parameters of a project on the fly?

My understanding is that everyone is a huge fan of moving goalposts. The stationary ones are just too easy to hit.

There's always scope creep and there's always project overruns and additional hours that end up be tacked on to the project because things don't work out as planned. Then these all snowball into the followings years of maintaining what was built and then dealing with the ramifications of any cost-cutting that was done. You pay now or you end up paying later.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by kermitology

This is not the mayor's decision. It is CSEC's decision based on the requests from Administration.

Could the mayor have overruled Administration?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Could the mayor have overruled Administration?

Calgary's mayor (any mayor, not Gondek specifically) has very little power to do anything unilaterally. Council can overrule recommendations from Administration, but the mayor is only one vote out of 15 on Council, and I don't think this particular issue went to a Council vote anyway. Bunk probably knows way more than I do, so let's see what he says about this.