Rubecube, because sometimes the questions are too general.
For example, "Majority of Democrats favor a single government program to provide healthcare coverage." Okay, what does that mean? How much is it? Who pays for it? Would you lose your existing healthcare? Even I would answer yes to that question and I'm Conservative/Republican.
Even in Canada, what does that mean? Healthcare really only covers hospitals, doctors, tests, and labs. It doesn't cover drugs, eyes, teeth, etc... Does the US want Canadian 50% healthcare?
So answering a poll question is different than actually voting on bills and policy.
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Okay, Cliff, then explain why policies that enjoy greater than 60% support among Democrats, and are also +50% across the majority of political spectrum get thwarted by the establishment varieties.
Because while vague generalizations are popular actual policies that involve tax raises and destroying the existing system are poison at the ballot box, yes everyone will say they want universal healthcare if you just ask them that, but if you ask pensioners if they would vote to get rid of medicare, which is what universal healthcare means, if you ask the middle class if they would vote for a 10 or 15% tax rise and they will lose their company health insurance they will scream like scalded cats.
The left need to learn a lesson from the GOP, forget trying to do anything at a national level in the US, it is inherently impossible, work on a state by state level
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Because while vague generalizations are popular actual policies that involve tax raises and destroying the existing system are poison at the ballot box, yes everyone will say they want universal healthcare if you just ask them that, but if you ask pensioners if they would vote to get rid of medicare, which is what universal healthcare means, if you ask the middle class if they would vote for a 10 or 15% tax rise and they will lose their company health insurance they will scream like scalded cats.
The left need to learn a lesson from the GOP, forget trying to do anything at a national level in the US, it is inherently impossible, work on a state by state level
Extending the CTC was broadly supported and required nothing in terms of tax raises, same with allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices, etc. These things got killed because they conflicted with the donor class, not because they weren't popular with voters.
Extending the CTC was broadly supported and required nothing in terms of tax raises, same with allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices, etc. These things got killed because they conflicted with the donor class, not because they weren't popular with voters.
No they got killed because the Dems dont control the Senate, they got killed because the dems in general and the progressive wing in particular have no interest in fighting the boring state level trench wars that the GOP uses to control the US with, when AOC takes her game to Indiana and OK, when Bernie sets up shop in Georgia and works out a way to win there then the Dems and left wing policies in the US will work.
The left has to sell their policies in the red states at a state level, to win state seats in the south, until then they will do ####, the right wing everywhere has a huge advantage over the left, they only care about winning, they will adopt any policy that helps them win, the left doesnt really care about winning never really has
No they got killed because the Dems dont control the Senate, they got killed because the dems in general and the progressive wing in particular have no interest in fighting the boring state level trench wars that the GOP uses to control the US with, when AOC takes her game to Indiana and OK, when Bernie sets up shop in Georgia and works out a way to win there then the Dems and left wing policies in the US will work.
The left has to sell their policies in the red states at a state level, to win state seats in the south, until then they will do ####, the right wing everywhere has a huge advantage over the left, they only care about winning, they will adopt any policy that helps them win, the left doesnt really care about winning never really has
What are you even talking about? These were proposals in Biden's agenda and they got killed by Democratic senators.
Also, the DSA has been heavily targeting state and mayoral races across the country. Bernie consistently campaigned in blue collar/Trump country areas of the country and has constantly advocated the need to do so. Bernie even did an entire townhall on Fox News and has done debates with Ted Cruz.
Anymore baseless talking points you'd like to pull out of your ass?
What are you even talking about? These were proposals in Biden's agenda and they got killed by Democratic senators.
Also, the DSA has been heavily targeting state and mayoral races across the country. Bernie consistently campaigned in blue collar/Trump country areas of the country and has constantly advocated the need to do so. Bernie even did an entire townhall on Fox News and has done debates with Ted Cruz.
Anymore baseless talking points you'd like to pull out of your ass?
they have to win the states, and your choice of mayoral races is interesting, basically they arent really tackling the Governerships and AG's. mayoral races are the easy ones as they represent urban areas, once again the Dems/left leave the field to the GOP then wonder why they lose.
they have to win the states, and your choice of mayoral races is interesting, basically they arent really tackling the Governerships and AG's. mayoral races are the easy ones as they represent urban areas, once again the Dems/left leave the field to the GOP then wonder why they lose.
Or perhaps they lose because the population disagrees with dem policy, dem priorities and dem rhetoric.
AFC Wimbledon is right, it's all about messaging. It's the democrats we need universal healthcare against the Republicans universal healthcare is communism.
And he's also right about Democrats only talking now to the cities and the college educated, academia. Elizabeth Warren led every poll in the Facebook/Twitter bubble only to get destroyed in the primaries and nobody in that bubble can understand why.
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It's mostly Gerrymandering frankly but the US is a systemically Gerrymandered and the only thing the Dem's can do to fix that is win the Gerrymandered districts and statehouses, passing voter rights acts in DC wont do squat in the trenches, nothing the Dems do in DC is worth a dam because the power is in the states and the Dems dont bother with nuts and bolts state issues, the 'red' states are full of poor white and colored voters that should be easy too sell left wing policies too but you have to do that on the ground over decades of local organizing and you have to sell it not just to the black population but to the deplorables as well, something the Dem's gave up on in the 70's.
It's mostly Gerrymandering frankly but the US is a systemically Gerrymandered and the only thing the Dem's can do to fix that is win the Gerrymandered districts and statehouses, passing voter rights acts in DC wont do squat in the trenches, nothing the Dems do in DC is worth a dam because the power is in the states and the Dems dont bother with nuts and bolts state issues, the 'red' states are full of poor white and colored voters that should be easy too sell left wing policies too but you have to do that on the ground over decades of local organizing and you have to sell it not just to the black population but to the deplorables as well, something the Dem's gave up on in the 70's.
Many poor people know that left wing policies are not in their best interest.
It might go without saying, but don't discount the effect that the right wing media ecosystem in the US has on millions of people. It's effectively brainwashed a lot of people into simply believing Democrat = bad, no matter what. Pollsters test policy questions all the time, and find overwhelming support for a some of them- but it's because the party pushing the idea isn't mentioned.
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Picking a team that you actually disagree with but are tok stubborn to change isn't exclusively a US problem.
Blackish did a good spin on it:
The biggest issue, as was previously touched upon, is the 'conservative' media echochamber.
Remember the Republican Michigan congressman that held a town hall to explain why he was leaving the Republican Party and couldn't support Trump?
People left flabbergasted as they had NO IDEA Trump did anything wrong. Talk Radio literally didn’t cover it, just that the Dems were out on a witch hunt.
That's a problem.
__________________ "Calgary Flames is the best team in all the land" - My Brainwashed Son
It might go without saying, but don't discount the effect that the right wing media ecosystem in the US has on millions of people. It's effectively brainwashed a lot of people into simply believing Democrat = bad, no matter what. Pollsters test policy questions all the time, and find overwhelming support for a some of them- but it's because the party pushing the idea isn't mentioned.
Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!!! Well stated.
The United States started falling apart when the "conservatives" got their own media and we able to establish their own "truth". No longer did all Americans sing from the same page of the hymnal. It put noise in the signal and we have been incapable of communicating with each other since. It is the "divide and conquer" mentality in action. It is why it is best to speak to issues and find commonalities rather than speak to them from the context of liberal/conservative or Democrat/Republican. It is also why massive omnibus bills are useless, as the nuance that would bring people together is left on the cutting room floor to appease the base fears/desires of constituents.
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Sorry about jumping into two conversations mid-stream.
Earlier the talk was about the differences between Democrats and Republicans, and it's important to point out that the answers given were about the electorate, and not the public officials. If you want to talk about the goals of the elected Democrats, it's : personal enrichment, and for Republicans, it's : personal enrichment. This occurs at all levels of government, and is a big reason why things do not 'get better' no matter who is in office.
The only second point I would make is that it is forever surprising to me that the American people do not understand how much more expensive their system of health can is compared to the rest of the world. It is by far the biggest albatross hanging around their neck.
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"We don't even know who our best player is yet. It could be any one of us at this point." - Peter LaFleur, player/coach, Average Joe's Gymnasium
It might go without saying, but don't discount the effect that the right wing media ecosystem in the US has on millions of people. It's effectively brainwashed a lot of people into simply believing Democrat = bad, no matter what.
Every poll ever done on the subject shows that newsrooms are overwhelmingly staffed by Democrat voters.
