[PGT] Flames lose 6-2

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by activeStick

How did Wolf look in the 3rd?

Bored.

[Psytic]

I’m not cheering for losses. I’m cheering for the future. Nobody cares about the down cycles for Chicago or the Pens or even the Leafs or Oilers. People have short memories. Im excited to land a true superstar for once.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I’m not cheering for losses. I’m cheering for the future. Nobody cares about the down cycles for Chicago or the Pens or even the Leafs or Oilers. People have short memories.

Pittsburgh almost lost its team in the last down cycle, but Jim Balsillie achieved the difficult feat of being too big an ass for the other NHL owners to put up with.

The Leafs could sell out their home games if they had a team of skating iguanas.

Im excited to land a true superstar for once.

If you don't think the Flames got any true superstars picking 4-6 in their last rebuild, I suspect you'll be deeply disappointed with whoever they draft in the 8-12 range this year.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Pittsburgh almost lost its team in the last down cycle, but Jim Balsillie achieved the difficult feat of being too big an ass for the other NHL owners to put up with.

The Leafs could sell out their home games if they had a team of skating iguanas.



If you don't think the Flames got any true superstars picking 4-6 in their last rebuild, I suspect you'll be deeply disappointed with whoever they draft in the 8-12 range this year.

I don’t think the rebuild ends with this year’s 8-12 pick but I know you know that. It takes more than one elite player to win a cup. Leafs and Oil still have no hope obviously but having more than one elite player certainly helps your chances. Are you implying that this city won’t support a rebuild? I’m not sure I understand the points about the Pens and Leafs.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Are you implying that this city won’t support a rebuild?

Yes.

I’m not sure I understand the points about the Pens and Leafs.

You were the one who said nobody cared about those teams' down cycles. People in Pittsburgh certainly cared, because they stayed away in droves and nearly lost the franchise. Toronto fans will pay to see anything in a Leafs uniform, so their situation is not applicable to ours.

Clear now?

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Yes.



You were the one who said nobody cared about those teams' down cycles. People in Pittsburgh certainly cared, because they stayed away in droves and nearly lost the franchise. Toronto fans will pay to see anything in a Leafs uniform, so their situation is not applicable to ours.

Clear now?

I think you’re not talking about the same era the Penguins tanked. They literally deliberately tanked for Mario. That was the actual strategy to save the team.The city has a clause to not sell the team with the arena deal so you can rest easy if your fear is the Flames can never bottom out or the team will be sold. Best time to pick up high picks honestly with that in the contract.

The Oil can be bad for 20 years but our fandom can’t handle a couple years of bottoming out. Really makes that Edmonton is no good thread look like an inferiority complex.We handled the post Iggy era just fine. I don’t think this is the 90s Save the Flames all over again and the team seems to have a lot of faith in their drafting.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I think you’re not talking about the same era the Penguins tanked. They literally deliberately tanked for Mario. That was the actual strategy to save the team.

That's right, I was talking about the pre-Crosby period, when the Penguins couldn't draw flies.

The Oil can be bad for 20 years but our fandom can’t handle a couple years of bottoming out. Really makes that Edmonton is no good thread look like an inferiority complex.

The Oilers nearly went bust in the late 90s, and had a revolving cast of owners as bad as the Coyotes before Katz showed up. Their attendance in the bad years was every bit as rotten as ours.

We handled the post Iggy era just fine.

The biggest complaint I keep hearing about that era is that the Flames did NOT do a proper rebuild, but cut it short to sell tickets.

I don’t think this is the 90s Save the Flames all over again and the team seems to have a lot of faith in their drafting.

That doesn't mean they'll draft better players than Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, and Fox this time around.

To come full circle, if you don't think the Flames drafted any star players last time around, you're pretty certain to be disappointed this time, too.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That's right, I was talking about the pre-Crosby period, when the Penguins couldn't draw flies.

And we agree that they tanked deliberately for Mario and there's no asterisk by their cup wins?

The Oilers nearly went bust in the late 90s, and had a revolving cast of owners as bad as the Coyotes before Katz showed up. Their attendance in the bad years was every bit as rotten as ours.

I looked at their attendance and it was a shade under 17,000 from 2001 until they drafted Drai and McD then it went up over 18k which isn't really that bad I don't think. Not that I'm here to defend the Oilers. My point was we can handle a full rebuild as a fan base if they can.

That doesn't mean they'll draft better players than Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, and Fox this time around.

Maybe we do maybe we don't. I guess I'm just glass half full on this. But surely having the ability to get more than one top 5 pick over the life of the franchise increases our odds of getting some superstars.

To come full circle, if you don't think the Flames drafted any star players last time around, you're pretty certain to be disappointed this time, too.

Never said that. The more we draft in the top 5 this rebuild cycle, the better our chances at super star players. Nothing is guaranteed you are right. Never said I wasn't happy with the last group or Iggy's group. Only one team wins the cup every year. Doesn't mean I don't want darts with a higher chance to hit on the board when we have the opportunity to do so. We got nothing to lose with this new arena being built. Its the best time to do a a rebuild. They cant leave even if they wanted to... If there's enough fun things to do in this entertainment district they have planned people will check the team out anyway.

Markstrom will most likely get moved in the offseason and he is basically all that's needed to be a full on rebuild/ retool whatever you want to call it. He's the only thing keeping this teams head above water even slightly. You may not like it buts that's pretty much where the Flames are already at this point. The UFAs leaving saw to that.

[Jay Random]

[QUOTE=Psytic;9031764]And we agree that they tanked deliberately for Mario and there's no asterisk by their cup wins?

They tanked deliberately, and so did their closest competitor, New Jersey. In the process, the Penguins destroyed their team so thoroughly that it took them five years to return to the playoffs – in a league where 16 out of 21 teams made it in. The Devils took four years.

I looked at their attendance and it was a shade under 17,000 from 2001 until they drafted Drai and McD then it went up over 18k which isn't really that bad I don't think. Not that I'm here to defend the Oilers. My point was we can handle a full rebuild as a fan base if they can.

The Oilers made the Cup finals in 2006, so the period just before that is irrelevant to the question of rebuilds. Their fans thought the rebuild was over in 2010, when they drafted Taylor Hall. They thought it was over again in 2015, when they drafted McDavid.

Never said I wasn't happy with the last group or Iggy's group.

Actually you kind of did, when you said you hoped the team would draft some superstars ‘for once’. To me, that reads as if you don't think they ever had any superstars before. If that's not what you meant, I apologize.

[Tsawwassen]

Post game links
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/games/41972995
https://www.espn.com/nhl/game/_/game...alanche-flames
https://www.espn.com/nhl/recap/_/gameId/401560266
https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/colora...boxscore-41047
https://fieldlevelmedia.com/news/5-g...e-past-flames/

[Psytic]

[QUOTE=Jay Random;9031876]

Originally Posted by Psytic

And we agree that they tanked deliberately for Mario and there's no asterisk by their cup wins?

They tanked deliberately, and so did their closest competitor, New Jersey. In the process, the Penguins destroyed their team so thoroughly that it took them five years to return to the playoffs – in a league where 16 out of 21 teams made it in. The Devils took four years.



The Oilers made the Cup finals in 2006, so the period just before that is irrelevant to the question of rebuilds. Their fans thought the rebuild was over in 2010, when they drafted Taylor Hall. They thought it was over again in 2015, when they drafted McDavid.



Actually you kind of did, when you said you hoped the team would draft some superstars ‘for once’. To me, that reads as if you don't think they ever had any superstars before. If that's not what you meant, I apologize.

I agree on all accounts but my point in my statement “no one cares” was the history book doesn’t put asterisks by cups or award gold stars for always landing in 8th or 9th place. In other words no one cares. it’s just our own fan base self pride. No one else cares what we do. You are trying to look at this from an angle that I don’t think is applicable to us as they can’t leave even if they wanted to. They aren’t going anywhere for 35 years. Im sure if I say no one cares for any statement you can find someone somewhere that actually cares but I know you know what I meant. If it rained in Vancouver they probably care, no one else does.

We had Iggy and Kipper alone on an island and we had two years of super star level Markstrom and one superstar year of Tkachuck and Johnny. Never had Fox for any real length of time. What I want is some elite super stars and I want them to actually play here for a significant amount of time before taking off. You can’t win with two guys and 0 elite centers especially if you only get their primes for such a short time. You increase your chances of hitting gold with higher picks. We are there already anyway thanks to the UFAs leaving as mentioned so it’s not really a debate at this point anyway. We dont really have a choice unless they are dumb enough to keep riding Markstrom with 0 Stars outside of him left on the team.

[Erick Estrada]

The Oilers will be likely rebuilding in the coming years once Draisaitl and McDavid leave but no matter how bad they get there's enough fan support to keep attendance respectable as their attendance was decent when they were picking top 10 for nearly a decade because they could sell hope with every 1st overall pick (Hall, RNH, Yakupov, McDavid) they accumulated. Since Edwards won't allow the Flames to properly rebuild, there are very low chances of getting the blue chip prospects that fans will pay to see even on a losing team (look at the Hawks with Bedard).

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The Oilers will be likely rebuilding in the coming years once Draisaitl and McDavid leave but no matter how bad they get there's enough fan support to keep attendance respectable as their attendance was decent when they were picking top 10 for nearly a decade because they could sell hope with every 1st overall pick (Hall, RNH, Yakupov, McDavid) they accumulated. Since Edwards won't allow the Flames to properly rebuild, there are very low chances of getting the blue chip prospects that fans will pay to see even on a losing team (look at the Hawks with Bedard).

True. It all depends on Markstrom. If the rumor that the owners want a Mercer level asset to approve a trade is true, but they are in fact willing to trade him, and some team is willing to match the demand... then we bottom out next year easily. This off season will be very interesting to see what happens with him. Maybe after all of this he asks to be traded you never know.