2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Luckily, that's only your opinion. Personally, I like Backs. Some of you would trade the whole team away and next year be demanding a rebuild. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

Yeah you probably right a few minor tweaks and this team will make noise in the playoffs...the fact the missed the playoffs this year and have not done anything great since 2004 is more a case of bad luck

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

We should be laming our lack of success on management's inability to acquire a strong group of players, not on the few good players we have had.

Indeed, Backlund is not Bergeron, but he is still a very good two way player.

He's not even a David Krejci. He's very good like all full time NHL centers are very good but the reality is that he's never been good enough. If we can agree Monahan isn't a good enough 1st line center to lead a team to a Stanley Cup we have to also admit Backlund hasn't been good enough either as a 2nd line center or defensive center.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He's not even a David Krejci. He's very good like all full time NHL centers are very good but the reality is that he's never been good enough. If we can agree Monahan isn't a good enough 1st line center to lead a team to a Stanley Cup we have to also admit Backlund hasn't been good enough either as a 2nd line center or defensive center.

We need to avoid doing what the Oilers and their fans have done in the past and blame current failures on our best players.

Backlund isn't making $10 million per season. He's not even making 6.

I agree with you on a lot but I just don't follow the logic here. What more could we possibly hope from Backlund?

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

There is literally nothing of value you can ascertain from +/- in the playoffs

You are so right.
All the Stanley Cup winning teams are full of minus players.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Cobra

You are so right.
All the Stanley Cup winning teams are full of minus players.

You mean the best teams score more than their opponents? This is a new development.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

We need to avoid doing what the Oilers and their fans have done in the past and blame current failures on our best players.

Backlund isn't making $10 million per season. He's not even making 6.

I agree with you on a lot but I just don't follow the logic here. What more could we possibly hope from Backlund?

At this stage of his career not a lot more. When I say he hasn't been good enough that's more an indictment on the people that built the team. He should have been a 3rd line center for the majority of his career but he was the 2nd line center and the results speak for themselves. As for the player himself he's been a great Calgary Flame and it's been a pleasure watching his entire NHL career.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cobra

You are so right.
All the Stanley Cup winning teams are full of minus players.

Ashasx is right, though. Plus Minus really isn't a useful stat even in a big sample size. The playoffs are anything but.

And you've got your correlation and causation mixed up. Of course Stanley Cup winning teams will have a roster full of plus players. That's because, as a team - 6 defensemen, 12 forwards, a goalie, a coaching staff - they outplayed their opponents. PlusMinus tells nothing of their individual play. You could build a lottery team full of career plus players all the same.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

You mean the best teams score more than their opponents? This is a new development.

Lol....exactly.

When you are minus 11 in 30 playoffs it will not equal many wins.
Players care about the +/- stat. They talk about it all the time.
We were on for 2 goals tonight and cost the team a win....got to be better.
They dont say our Corsi numbers were fantastic so who cares if we win or lose.

[Roof-Daddy]

If the Flames miraculously use Tkachuk + land Eichel, then it would be fantastic if they lost Backlund to expansion.

Eichel
Lindholm
Monahan

..is high end C depth.

But if they can't upgrade at C and they aren't going to rebuild, then IMO Backlund helps more than he hurts.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Yes I agree another Flames center with a little to no success in the playoffs.
Some say he has good Corsi numbers but they dont matter when you continually lose. Results are what it is all about in Pro hockey.

Minus 11 in 30 playoff games....ugh. So bad!!!

You cannot fill much needed top 6 forwards and top 4 defenseman when you pay unsuccessful 3rd line center man over 5 million.
I know I would way rather play head to head against Backlund than Sam Bennett every day of the week.
And Sam would be way cheaper.

Mikael Backlund was the best skater in the playoffs last season along with Bennett. If memory serves. Backlund was probably the best skater in the Winnipeg series and ditto for Bennett in the Dallas series. His plus minus took a massive hit in the Colorado series, but I still think that was more due to the system of the team’s play in that series. It was an absolutely abysmal postseason performance by Bill Peters in that series. Zero adjustments to the point of insanity.

Mikael Backlund probably doesn’t slot as a #2 center in an ideal situation because his offensive tools aren’t quite there, but he has a chance to be an elite #3 shutdown center. I think for his role, he more than lived up to expectations. 3rd line center, no Matthew Tkachuk, barely any powerplay 1 time and he still ends up top 5 in even strength scoring.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Lol....exactly.

When you are minus 11 in 30 playoffs it will not equal many wins.

I feel like I am eepeating myself.

You have causation and correlation mixed up. An individual can't stop Brian Elliott from letting in a butter soft goal. An individual can't force Hanifin and Hamonic to tighten up their gap control. An individual can't be expected to check Pavelski et al while still scoring with Tobias Reider on his LW. An individual also can't miraculously score on a John Gibson stopping everything thrown his way.

Plus Minus is not an individual stat.

Players care about the +/- stat. They talk about it all the time.

They also talk about pre-game superstitions all the time.

We were on for 2 goals tonight and cost the team a win....got to be better.

being on the ice for 2 goals against does not mean you could have done anything different as an individual.

Goal differentials are influenced by a myriad of factors, one of which is stupid luck. They're not a good evaluator of an individual's impact.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Lol....exactly.

When you are minus 11 in 30 playoffs it will not equal many wins.
Players care about the +/- stat. They talk about it all the time.
We were on for 2 goals tonight and cost the team a win....got to be better.
They dont say our Corsi numbers were fantastic so who cares if we win or lose.

No one says “who cares if we win or lose”, whether they’re talking about Corsi, +/- or whatever. Nice straw man.

But while you don’t hear players say “Corsi”, you do hear them talk about things that go into it. “Pucks at net, controlling the play, getting pucks deep, possession, puck management” etc.

[Cobra]

As an older person I always thought if a team scored more than the other team they usually won.
Usually that meant if you had the majority of your team with plus stats this was good and you would be successful that season and in the playoffs.
Now with this new education I am receiving it seems more complicated.
Being a minus 11 in 30 playoff games is just other people on the ice's fault or just plain bad luck.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Cobra

As an older person I always thought if a team scored more than the other team they usually won.
Usually that meant if you had the majority of your team with plus stats this was good and you would be successful that season and in the playoffs.
Now with this new education I am receiving it seems more complicated.
Being a minus 11 in 30 playoff games is just other people on the ice's fault or just plain bad luck.

Or maybe your always playing against the other teams top players.

There's a lot that goes into who scores and who doesn't.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The Flames have advanced to the 2nd round just once over Backlund's career. Team success and failure never falls on one player but it's clear that his ability to play a two way game has been a little overrated by Flames fans. The reality is that the team hasn't accomplished much with Backlund occupying a key role as 2nd line two way center. I'm not saying he needs to go but I also think he's part of the core that failed the team for his entire career.

That’s why we need to acquire Eichel, to permanently bump Lindholm to 2C and Backlund to 3C

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

We should be laming our lack of success on management's inability to acquire a strong group of players, not on the few good players we have had.

Indeed, Backlund is not Bergeron, but he is still a very good two way player.

This.

This is what always happens with underperforming teams.

The good players get blamed for not being "good enough", instead of blaming management for their inability to add more good players to make the group stronger as a whole.

The failure with this group was the failure of the acquisitions of Brouwer, Neal, Hamonic, and the goalie carousel up until this season.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

This.

This is what always happens with underperforming teams.

The good players get blamed for not being "good enough", instead of blaming management for their inability to add more good players to make the group stronger as a whole.

The failure with this group was the failure of the acquisitions of Brouwer, Neal, Hamonic, and the goalie carousel up until this season.

I don’t agree. Our “elite” players did not progress to being elite and we saw this season that the flames top players didn’t match up with the top players in the rest of the division. Flames top players are tiers below the Leafs and Oilers.

When Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm and Tkachuk are near or better than ppg this team should be a contender. When they score 0.5-0.75 points per game this team is on the bubble

[InternationalVillager]

The answers are in the room.

This organization is a disaster. Drafting 13th after what was the worst season in the last decade (in terms of expectations vs actual).

We will continue to sit in perpetual mediocrity because that's what this organization is destined to do.

So ####ing mad.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

That’s why we need to acquire Eichel, to permanently bump Lindholm to 2C and Backlund to 3C

This is the best outcome for the offseason barring a scorched earth teardown.

X - Eichel - Mangiapane
Gaudreau - Lindholm - X
Dube - Backlund - X

That's a strong framework. And good teams usually add their final top nine piece or two at the deadline, whether it's Hall in Boston, Bennett in Florida, Kucherov in Tampa, Palmieri in Long Island... you won't have six top six guys all season, but your stars push you through.

I'd love a top PP of

Lindholm
Eichel - Mangiapane - Gaudreau
(Dman)

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

This.

This is what always happens with underperforming teams.

The good players get blamed for not being "good enough", instead of blaming management for their inability to add more good players to make the group stronger as a whole.

The failure with this group was the failure of the acquisitions of Brouwer, Neal, Hamonic, and the goalie carousel up until this season.

Yep. It’s actually kind of a big problem Canada wide. Canadian hockey fans always blame the stars for not getting it done, but maybe the stars just didn’t get the required help.

Same thing that’s happening with Tkachuk and Gaudreau, happened with Iggy’s era. Everyone blames the core, blames the room, pointing their fingers at the wrong people. Then what happens is those players move on to different teams like Sam Bennett has with Florida and kills it there because they’re finally playing with actual good players.

It’s why Canada is #1 in NTC, NMC and etc. We drive good players away and then we get leftover junk in the UFA market which in turn kind of creates sort of a vicious cycle. If Gaudreau and Tkachuk get moved to deep teams in the summer and get to play with other elite players, they’ll probably win Cups while leading their teams in scoring while we sit here wondering why they couldn’t do that with us.