The New American Politics thread

[Itse]

The more I listen to Trump, the more I'm getting the feeling that he's just trying to see how extreme he can go.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Naw, the U.S. has a long history of enthusiasm for populist demagogues. Huey Long. Father Coughlin. Joseph McCarthy. George Wallace. We just don't have much of a cultural memory of politics before about 1968.

The Paranoid Style in American Politics (1964)



That's what Nelson Rockefeller thought in '64, and Barry Goldwater trounced him.

We aren't even in the campaign season yet.

I am wholly prepared to eat my words regarding trump, and I may even be looking foward to being wrong, but I do not get the sense that he's a legitimate candidate. If Trump TRULY is a legitimate Candidate, god helps us all.

[CliffFletcher]

Outsiders can win party nominations in the face of strong resistance from the party establishment. Again, Goldwater is the most obvious example - Rockefeller had the establishment behind him, he had moderates, and he had lots of money. But Goldwater had the John Birch Society and other angry, dedicated grass-roots supporters behind him. That support proved stronger than the power of the establishment. And Goldwater went on to suffer a historically lopsided loss to Lyndon Johnson. Nobody said these people are especially bright, just very frightened and very angry.

[PostandIn]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I don't think they're all wack jobs. Paul, Christie, Fiorina, Kasich, Bush and Rubio don't strike me as wack jobs, although I disagree with them on many things. Of course, most of them have no real chance.

Rubio's comments on foreign policy are fairly worrisome. Seems twitchy. Comes across like he just can't wait to call in the Joint Chiefs and say 'OK, where you guys wanna start?' as though more bombs and American military engagement will be a sure fire solution to all the world's problems.

[Dogbert]

It's remarkable just how effectively the rich and powerful are able to pit those who have little and those who have nothing against one another. The tensions between races and religions are as high as I've ever seen them, it only seems to be getting worse, and those who should be calming everyone down seem to be purposefully stoking the fires.

[driveway]

It's shocking to me how much of a sport American politics has become to people who are deeply personally invested in following American politics. I'm speaking specifically of the community of posters I've been following on-and-off for about a decade now over at FreeRepublic.com. These people are profoundly conservative and really rather frightening.

I first found the site back when I liked to argue with Creationists on the internet when I was in my early 20's and have been pretty much unable to look away ever since. These are the people who form the far-right base of the Conservative movement (they can't even really be called GOP anymore as they're the ones who, for example, viscerally hate Boehner).

Much like CP is a community of people who invest time and energy into the Calgary Flames, these people invest time and energy into the idea of Movement Conservatism. They donate, they hold rallies, they are activist.

And they god damn love Donald Trump. And it's not because they particularly agree with his positions, though a lot of them really like this idiotic no-muslims idea, it's because they see him as winning. Not the election, no, they see him as winning the ... battle? Game? It's hard to express exactly how they see the current political situation, but a sports-metaphor is, I think, the best.

There is the Conservative team, and there is the Other team. The Conservative team is Pro-Christ, Pro-Life, Pro-Guns, and "Pro-Constitution." I put that in quotes because it's a very particular Constitution they are Pro. It's the one that agrees with their ideas and disagrees with the other team. In their eyes, Trump is scoring points for their team. The fact that he's getting attention makes them happy, just like how we were excited for Gaudreau to get Calder attention, or Giordano to get Norris attention. They enjoy that Trump is 'making Liberal heads explode.' That reporters and anchors and editorialists are pointing out the lunacy of his position. They view this as a positive, it's beneficial to their cause to get the attention. They feel that Trump's blunt approach will convince others of the rightness of their cause (which is inherent and should be obvious, but Liberals, Democrats, and Muslims are, in actual fact, evil).

The actual substance of his proposals are not really important. What's important, and what excites them and makes them happy, is the bluntness of his approach, and the attention he's getting.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Dogbert

It's remarkable just how effectively the rich and powerful are able to pit those who have little and those who have nothing against one another. The tensions between races and religions are as high as I've ever seen them, it only seems to be getting worse, and those who should be calming everyone down seem to be purposefully stoking the fires.

The death throes of an empire in all likelihood. And it could get a lot uglier.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Dogbert

It's remarkable just how effectively the rich and powerful are able to pit those who have little and those who have nothing against one another. The tensions between races and religions are as high as I've ever seen them, it only seems to be getting worse, and those who should be calming everyone down seem to be purposefully stoking the fires.

It doesn't take the rich and powerful to pit races and religions against one another. Look around the world. Look at our own history. People are naturally suspicious of the Other, and that suspicion turns to hostility when times get tough. The relative tolerance of different peoples for one another in the West in the last 40 years or so is the anomaly.

Demagoguery is ugly and dangerous. But it's not all that hard to pull off, and it's certainly nothing new.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Honest question: how will they determine who is Muslim?

Small plate of bacon bits at every custom check

[Mr.Coffee]

If it seems like the US population base is expanding in its' conservative and hard line tone, it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise. As the gulf between the rich and the poor becomes larger, and the middle class becomes more burdened, there is an education system that tailors the wealthy and the minority of the population. That means the majority of the population are largely uneducated and the result is a (IMO) ever growing base of crazy people taking stances that are racist, ignorant and altogether ultimately uneducated. It's only going to get worse in my opinion, until the education system returns to a more equal and fair system distributing overall decent quality to all people regardless of their economic upbringing or background.

Until then, American society will continue to slowly fade from greatness.

[heep223]

Holy #### it's depressing as hell in here.

The U.S. continues to have the strongest economy in the world and in the midst of an energy revolution. They are stronger than ever.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by heep223

Holy #### it's depressing as hell in here.

The U.S. continues to have the strongest economy in the world and in the midst of an energy revolution. They are stronger than ever.

Who was talking about economy in regards to the US? Did you even read the thread? And I would hope you're not countering America's alarming issues that appear to be coming to a head imnthe next decade with "well their economy is good".

[heep223]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Who was talking about economy in regards to the US? Did you even read the thread? And I would hope you're not countering Americas alarming issuesnthat appeae to be coming to a head imnthe next decade with "well their economy is good".

Dude read like the 6 or 7 posts before mine.

Death throes of an empire...fading from greatness.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by heep223

Holy #### it's depressing as hell in here.

The U.S. continues to have the strongest economy in the world and in the midst of an energy revolution. They are stronger than ever.

Yup, that is totally true.

And yet, only 25% of Americans think the country is heading in the "Right Direction"
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...or_wrong_track

Twenty-five percent (25%) of Likely U.S. Voters now think the country is heading in the right direction.
...
This is down three points from the previous week and back to the level of confidence during the first full week of surveying after the terrorist attacks in Paris. This week’s number is just one point above the low for the year.

The RCP Average is 63.0% "wrong track" and 28.4% "right track." A majority of Americans have felt the country has been on the 'wrong track' since the summer of 2009.

[Bunk]

This is for all intents and purposes fascism.

Crazy - this is a current frontrunner for a major party presidential nomination.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by heep223

Holy #### it's depressing as hell in here.

The U.S. continues to have the strongest economy in the world and in the midst of an energy revolution. They are stronger than ever.

I guess if your definition of a great nation is exclusively based on the economy then yeah, great.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I guess if your definition of a great nation is exclusively based on the economy then yeah, great.

And really, those economic gains have gone predominantly to those that are already wealthy, who didn't need the economic support. Wages for those in the bottom 3/5ths of the economy have stagnated or fallen in the last 20 years. That thriving economy is fantastic if you're already rich--if you're not, welp, you're not seeing much of that growth.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

And really, those economic gains have gone predominantly to those that are already wealthy, who didn't need the economic support. Wages for those in the bottom 3/5ths of the economy have stagnated or fallen in the last 20 years. That thriving economy is fantastic if you're already rich--if you're not, welp, you're not seeing much of that growth.

That's just it. Your average American needs to scrimp and save just to buy a basic assault rifle these days.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Itse

The more I listen to Trump, the more I'm getting the feeling that he's just trying to see how extreme he can go.

I think he's trying to sabotage his campaign, trump has always been a liberal basically, I suspect he's just playing out a Colbert role and his success has caught him off guard, I think originally this was just a bit of free publicity for his media empire and it's got out of hand.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I think he's trying to sabotage his campaign, trump has always been a liberal basically, I suspect he's just playing out a Colbert role and his success has caught him off guard, I think originally this was just a bit of free publicity for his media empire and it's got out of hand.

Maybe he's filming the greatest political satire of all time.

First documentary to win the Oscar for best movie, in theaters 2017.