2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[powderjunkie]

If MAF comes with a sweetener he's my #1 choice. Because it should help prevent the team from signing any dumb UFAs.

I'm sure VGK prefers sending him out of division if at all possible though...not the kind of move you want to blow up in your face

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

If MAF comes with a sweetener he's my #1 choice. Because it should help prevent the team from signing any dumb UFAs.

I'm sure VGK prefers sending him out of division if at all possible though...not the kind of move you want to blow up in your face

Can't overpay a goaltender when you're already grossly overpaying a goaltender!

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

If MAF comes with a sweetener he's my #1 choice. Because it should help prevent the team from signing any dumb UFAs.

I'm sure VGK prefers sending him out of division if at all possible though...not the kind of move you want to blow up in your face

Lets go over it one more time for those of you who ignored it the first time I posted it.

AND with Tampa Bay winning its officially 9 straight goalies winning cups who we\re developed exclusively by their own teams systems. No traded for gaolies at all. And thats also 13 out of 14 with Tim Thomas in 2011 the only outlier. Anti Niemi was a free agent from Finland and signed and developed by Chicago.

20072008 Detroit Osgood 3rd rd
20082009 Pittsburgh Fluery 1st rd
20092010 Chicago Niemi FA Finland
20102011 XBostonX XThomasX 9th Rd Quebec
20112012 LA Quick 3rd rd
20122013 Chicago Crawford 2nd rd
2013-2014 LA Quick 3rd rd
2014-2015 Chicago Crawford 2nd rd
2015-2016 Pittsburgh Murray 3rd rd
2016-2017 Pittsburgh Murray 3rd rd
20172018 Washington Holtby 4th rd
20182019 St Louis Binnington 3rd rd
2019 020 Tampa Vasilevskji 1st rd

Stop wasting time musing about "big ticket goalies". Start talking about Rittich, the Russian kid and Wolf. Spend Tree's money elsewhere so it can do some good.

[Enoch Root]

The Flames do not have a goalie that they can win with.

Wolf, at this point, is nothing more than a hope. If he becomes a #1 goalie, it will be years from now.

Saying you have to farm your own goalies is a ridiculous argument when you don't have one at the moment (or any time soon).

Also, as has been said, just become something hasn't been the case for 9 years, doesn't mean it is never the case.

[Demetric]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Lets go over it one more time for those of you who ignored it the first time I posted it.

AND with Tampa Bay winning its officially 9 straight goalies winning cups who we\re developed exclusively by their own teams systems. No traded for gaolies at all. And thats also 13 out of 14 with Tim Thomas in 2011 the only outlier. Anti Niemi was a free agent from Finland and signed and developed by Chicago.

20072008 Detroit Osgood 3rd rd
20082009 Pittsburgh Fluery 1st rd
20092010 Chicago Niemi FA Finland
20102011 XBostonX XThomasX 9th Rd Quebec
20112012 LA Quick 3rd rd
20122013 Chicago Crawford 2nd rd
2013-2014 LA Quick 3rd rd
2014-2015 Chicago Crawford 2nd rd
2015-2016 Pittsburgh Murray 3rd rd
2016-2017 Pittsburgh Murray 3rd rd
20172018 Washington Holtby 4th rd
20182019 St Louis Binnington 3rd rd
2019 020 Tampa Vasilevskji 1st rd

Stop wasting time musing about "big ticket goalies". Start talking about Rittich, the Russian kid and Wolf. Spend Tree's money elsewhere so it can do some good.

like on a good goalie coach, maybe?

[Sylvanfan]

Yeah I think there is at least 2-3 years until the main candidate Wolf can even scratch the surface of the NHL. I don't think Rittich can become much more than a serviceable 1B type. So if you are not willing to tank and rebuild. You need a stop gap. Many cup runner ups got there with traded guys.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The Flames do not have a goalie that they can win with.

Wolf, at this point, is nothing more than a hope. If he becomes a #1 goalie, it will be years from now.

Saying you have to farm your own goalies is a ridiculous argument when you don't have one at the moment (or any time soon).

Also, as has been said, just become something hasn't been the case for 9 years, doesn't mean it is never the case.

Did it ever occur to you that A Players have really high allegiances to the teams that drafted them? REALLY HIGH! Its why all Cup Champs have over 11 players from their own systems at least. B Goalies are so in the spotlight in every rink and dressing room in the league that perhaps those teams coaching and management staffs may know something we don't when they decide to cut loose a MAF, Bishop or whomever?

I don't care how far they go in a playoff. The Cup is the only grail and that weird factoid about Cup Winning goalies has to be far more than a co-incidence. 3 in in a row is a co-incidence. 13 of 14 ( and I was informed that actually after Thomas was drafted his 1st NHL team was Boston. He never played for any one else prior to 2011.)

Twist and turn all you want pay Talbot 3-4 to stick around and keep working on young goalies.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Yeah I think there is at least 2-3 years until the main candidate Wolf can even scratch the surface of the NHL. I don't think Rittich can become much more than a serviceable 1B type. So if you are not willing to tank and rebuild. You need a stop gap. Many cup runner ups got there with traded guys.

Your happy to be a runner up???
Stop gap okay but don't spend big money on one. Anything over 4 for a stop gap is a wasted effort.

[Flamesforever99]

I don't understand why we're in the market for a goalie?? That wasn't what got us eliminated against the stars, it was the core that loves to choke and can't close out a game. I don't know why so many have given up on Rittich, in case all of you forgot he's the reason we made the playoffs the last two seasons and it baffles me that they've robbed him of starting two years in a row now. If Talbot can be brought back on a cheap deal I'd roll with that tandem again.

IMO we need a first line centre with Dube expected to take a step next season as well as Bennett showing he can do much more if given the right ice time. I think it's time to trade Monahan, a lot of you might not be happy with this but he's a big reason why we continue to get bounced he's 6'3 and rarely uses his size, shys away from loose puck battles and clearly doesn't drive his own line.

I'm sure a lot of you would rather see Johnny get traded but if that happens do you really think Hall would be an upgrade over Johnny? Would Monahan be a 30 goal scorer without the playmaking of Johnny? The answer is no to both, yes Johnny is small but look at Kucherov and Point they're "small" and just won a stanely cup. The issue isn't Johnny, it's Monny not creating the space a first line centre should be able to.

This team is a first line centre away from competing IMO, I have no idea who would be available but if we're going to trade our 1st round pick for anything it would be to package it with Monahan to get the first line centre we've desperately needed since Joe Nieuwendyk.

Doing so would also let them go after either Taylor Hall Or Alex Pietrangelo, IMO it should be Pietrangelo he would really light a fire under their ###

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Did it ever occur to you that A Players have really high allegiances to the teams that drafted them? REALLY HIGH! Its why all Cup Champs have over 11 players from their own systems at least. B Goalies are so in the spotlight in every rink and dressing room in the league that perhaps those teams coaching and management staffs may know something we don't when they decide to cut loose a MAF, Bishop or whomever?

It is nonsensical to imagine that a player's determination to stay or leave the team that drafted him correlates to his level of skill and ability.

[I]I don't care how far they go in a playoff. The Cup is the only grail and that weird factoid about Cup Winning goalies has to be far more than a co-incidence. 3 in in a row is a co-incidence. 13 of 14 ( and I was informed that actually after Thomas was drafted his 1st NHL team was Boston. He never played for any one else prior to 2011.)[/I ]

But unless you can provide a clear explanation for this "factoid" it is essentially an irrelevant anecdote. Why are drafted goalies more successful (by this metric) with their drafting teams? Are there other factors at play here?

This is ultimately unconvincing because it doesn't make any sense.

Twist and turn all you want pay Talbot 3-4 to stick around and keep working on young goalies.

But to what end? I personally think Rittich has more room to grow, but I certainly understand why some think he is what he is at this point. So how far do the Flames follow this philosophy IF THERE IS NO GOALIE IN THE SYSTEM READY TO MAKE THE JUMP TO THE NHL?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Flamesforever99

I don't understand why we're in the market for a goalie??

The Flames only have one goalie with NHL experience under contract and the other goalies who are under contract (or RFA) haven't shown they can consistently win in the AHL yet, let alone throw them to the wolves in the NHL.

No matter what, they'll need to sign a goalie.

[Flamesforever99]

Originally Posted by getbak

The Flames only have one goalie with NHL experience under contract and the other goalies who are under contract (or RFA) haven't shown they can consistently win in the AHL yet, let alone throw them to the wolves in the NHL.

No matter what, they'll need to sign a goalie.

I know that, but why are we trying to give big bucks or assets to acquire one re-sign Talbot and use that cap for Taylor Hall or Pietrangelo

[Dragomir]

Re-signing Talbot to a 3-4 year deal is the best option.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

Re-signing Talbot to a 3-4 year deal is the best option.

Best option for achieving what results? First round exits?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flamesforever99

I don't understand why we're in the market for a goalie?? That wasn't what got us eliminated against the stars, it was the core that loves to choke and can't close out a game. I don't know why so many have given up on Rittich, in case all of you forgot he's the reason we made the playoffs the last two seasons and it baffles me that they've robbed him of starting two years in a row now. If Talbot can be brought back on a cheap deal I'd roll with that tandem again.

IMO we need a first line centre with Dube expected to take a step next season as well as Bennett showing he can do much more if given the right ice time. I think it's time to trade Monahan, a lot of you might not be happy with this but he's a big reason why we continue to get bounced he's 6'3 and rarely uses his size, shys away from loose puck battles and clearly doesn't drive his own line.

I'm sure a lot of you would rather see Johnny get traded but if that happens do you really think Hall would be an upgrade over Johnny? Would Monahan be a 30 goal scorer without the playmaking of Johnny? The answer is no to both, yes Johnny is small but look at Kucherov and Point they're "small" and just won a stanely cup. The issue isn't Johnny, it's Monny not creating the space a first line centre should be able to.

This team is a first line centre away from competing IMO, I have no idea who would be available but if we're going to trade our 1st round pick for anything it would be to package it with Monahan to get the first line centre we've desperately needed since Joe Nieuwendyk.

Doing so would also let them go after either Taylor Hall Or Alex Pietrangelo, IMO it should be Pietrangelo he would really light a fire under their ###

Johnny doesn't play with nearly the same amount of determination, jam or commitment that Kucherov or Point does.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

Re-signing Talbot to a 3-4 year deal is the best option.

Is the best of the terrible options.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Lets go over it one more time for those of you who ignored it the first time I posted it.

AND with Tampa Bay winning its officially 9 straight goalies winning cups who we\re developed exclusively by their own teams systems. No traded for gaolies at all. And thats also 13 out of 14 with Tim Thomas in 2011 the only outlier. Anti Niemi was a free agent from Finland and signed and developed by Chicago.

20072008 Detroit Osgood 3rd rd
20082009 Pittsburgh Fluery 1st rd
20092010 Chicago Niemi FA Finland
20102011 XBostonX XThomasX 9th Rd Quebec
20112012 LA Quick 3rd rd
20122013 Chicago Crawford 2nd rd
2013-2014 LA Quick 3rd rd
2014-2015 Chicago Crawford 2nd rd
2015-2016 Pittsburgh Murray 3rd rd
2016-2017 Pittsburgh Murray 3rd rd
20172018 Washington Holtby 4th rd
20182019 St Louis Binnington 3rd rd
2019 020 Tampa Vasilevskji 1st rd

Stop wasting time musing about "big ticket goalies". Start talking about Rittich, the Russian kid and Wolf. Spend Tree's money elsewhere so it can do some good.

I've actually been banging this drum for years. I'm too lazy to find it, but I've posted exactly the same thing as you 2-3 years ago.

Here's the thing, there are a half-dozen other things that cap-era cup winning teams have had in common (winning multiple rounds over the preceding years, having picked top 2 in the last 15 years, having a top-3 pick on their roster, simply having two good centers, etc.). The Flames aren't very close on most of those factoid indicators either.

I don't believe there is a direct causal link between any of those things and cup success, but IMO they are all indicators of organizations who draft/scout/develop well, are mostly patient/disciplined, and are lucky. Between all that, the eye test, and common sense, there isn't much reason to believe this team will legitimately contend in the next 2 years.


So, get an additional free asset and prevent yourself from making more crippling decisions while re-tooling the roster. Despite missing Tkachuk and generally playing poorly, this team managed to take an early 3-0 lead in an elimination game. IMO they are not very close as currently constructed, but they may not be that far away, either.

I argued at this most recent TDL that even despite injury issues at the time, trading Brodie, Hamonic, AND, Gaudreau would not necessarily preclude this team from competing/winning a round or two. No Hamonic, no Tkachuk, and a pretty poor showing from Gio, yet we weren't totally out of it. My argument would be the same for the next year or two. We could trade away both Gaudreau and Gio for not much immediate help and still have a puncher's chance at winning a round or two. MAF is as good as anybody to keep the seat warm for Wolf while maintaining a sliver of hope for this team to progress.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Lets go over it one more time for those of you who ignored it the first time I posted it.

AND with Tampa Bay winning its officially 9 straight goalies winning cups who we\re developed exclusively by their own teams systems. No traded for gaolies at all. And thats also 13 out of 14 with Tim Thomas in 2011 the only outlier. Anti Niemi was a free agent from Finland and signed and developed by Chicago.

20072008 Detroit Osgood 3rd rd
20082009 Pittsburgh Fluery 1st rd
20092010 Chicago Niemi FA Finland
20102011 XBostonX XThomasX 9th Rd Quebec
20112012 LA Quick 3rd rd
20122013 Chicago Crawford 2nd rd
2013-2014 LA Quick 3rd rd
2014-2015 Chicago Crawford 2nd rd
2015-2016 Pittsburgh Murray 3rd rd
2016-2017 Pittsburgh Murray 3rd rd
20172018 Washington Holtby 4th rd
20182019 St Louis Binnington 3rd rd
2019 020 Tampa Vasilevskji 1st rd

Stop wasting time musing about "big ticket goalies". Start talking about Rittich, the Russian kid and Wolf. Spend Tree's money elsewhere so it can do some good.

Please stop posting this like it is ####ing gospel. Yes that is the current trend, keyword being CURRENT. It's completely normal to see trends like this, then have another decade stretch where almost the exact opposite happens. The most import thing is not paying too much for your goaltenders so you can make the rest of your roster deeper.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

lol this COVID season/off-season. We've been talking in circles for about 6 months now.

I can't wait to see how it all shakes out.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

Re-signing Talbot to a 3-4 year deal is the best option.

It's the last option if Tree can't find anyone on the UFA market.