Yeah but IMO it's Porsche money for an Audi. I feel Porsche is a cut above MB, BMW and Audi and as much as I like the car it exceeds what I would pay for an Audi that's not the R8. They will sell every single one of these so really my opinion doesn't matter here ha ha.
Yes, but Porsche doesn't make anything comparable at this price point - the RS6 would eat a Panamera 4S. To get equivalent performance, you're looking to at least the Turbo and that's ~50% more than the RS6 and still less practical.
I think the RS6 is priced extremely fairly for what it is. Same with the RSQ8, which is essentially an un-neutered (and better looking, IMO) Lamborghini Urus at 60% off.
To be fair, I agree with you that the Porsche brand carries more cachet than Audi (and BMW and Mercedes). Thinking out loud here - strangely, I can't think of another manufacturer that I'd lump in with Porsche; the other Germans aren't quite there, but then Porsche isn't quite at the level of Aston, Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini, etc.
Last edited by you&me; 09-30-2020 at 05:14 PM.
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Your best bet is to sign up with the local Porsche Club of America (which for Edmonton is the Polar Region https://www.pcapolarregion.com/membership/) as you'll typically get good advice from the community.
In Calgary, Alpine and Riegel tend to be the places to go to. I used to go to Riegel with my Cayman, but they started acting a bit more like a dealer, and so I've switched to Alpine. Marc there is pretty old school so nowhere near as polished, but in my dealings has come across being honest and a genuine lover of these cars.
I would also recommend Alpine over Riegel. I have known Marc for over 20 years and he does great work. Marc worked for South Centre Porsche many years ago and was regarded as one of the best Porsche Technicians in Canada at that time. He's good with all the German stuff.
Yes, but Porsche doesn't make anything comparable at this price point - the RS6 would eat a Panamera 4S. To get equivalent performance, you're looking to at least the Turbo and that's ~50% more than the RS6 and still less practical.
I think the RS6 is priced extremely fairly for what it is. Same with the RSQ8, which is essentially an un-neutered (and better looking, IMO) Lamborghini Urus at 60% off.
To be fair, I agree with you that the Porsche brand carries more cachet than Audi (and BMW and Mercedes). Thinking out loud here - strangely, I can't think of another manufacturer that I'd lump in with Porsche; the other Germans aren't quite there, but then Porsche isn't quite at the level of Aston, Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini, etc.
I personally think that's mostly just perception. Just because its more expensive, doesn't always mean it's better. More expensive may carry cachet for some, not me. I'd choose a myriad of current Porsche offerings before anything Italian (or British) for that matter. In reality, current Lamborghini is a German brand that builds its vehicles in Italy.
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I personally think that's mostly just perception. Just because its more expensive, doesn't always mean it's better. More expensive may carry cachet for some, not me. I'd choose a myriad of current Porsche offerings before anything Italian (or British) for that matter. In reality, current Lamborghini is a German brand that builds its vehicles in Italy.
Well of course it's perception - that's exactly what "cachet" would mean, right? The brands listed have their hierarchy of prestige; some can be placed in a sort of peer group, while Porsche seems to be peerless.
This has nothing to do with the underlying product, how good it actually is, where it's built or what you (or I) prefer.
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Yes, but Porsche doesn't make anything comparable at this price point - the RS6 would eat a Panamera 4S. To get equivalent performance, you're looking to at least the Turbo and that's ~50% more than the RS6 and still less practical.
I think the RS6 is priced extremely fairly for what it is. Same with the RSQ8, which is essentially an un-neutered (and better looking, IMO) Lamborghini Urus at 60% off.
To be fair, I agree with you that the Porsche brand carries more cachet than Audi (and BMW and Mercedes). Thinking out loud here - strangely, I can't think of another manufacturer that I'd lump in with Porsche; the other Germans aren't quite there, but then Porsche isn't quite at the level of Aston, Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini, etc.
Without hesitation, Porsche belongs in the conversation of best manufacturer in the world.
I’d put the Carrera GT and 918 up against any Lambo, McLaren or Ferrari.
Aston Martin hasn’t built a car this century that’s better than the equivalent Porsche (IMO), and I don’t think the 20th century is any better for them. And the less said about Bentley, the better - they’re not exotic enough to justify the outrageous price. Either go all in and get a Rolls, or dial it back to a Jaguar.
And that’s without getting into any of the myriad 911 GT3 4RS AWD TurboE whatevers that bridge the gulf between the Macans and the 918.
That said, the Vanquish is my OG Dream Car.
It bears mentioning as well, the worst drivers in the world, bar none, drive Macans and Cayennes.
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To be fair, I agree with you that the Porsche brand carries more cachet than Audi (and BMW and Mercedes). Thinking out loud here - strangely, I can't think of another manufacturer that I'd lump in with Porsche; the other Germans aren't quite there, but then Porsche isn't quite at the level of Aston, Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini, etc.
Maybe if you buy cars purely for status. Has Bentley ever made a car as good as even just the current base 911? Has it ever made a car even as good as the top model of any generation of 911 this century? I'm struggling to think of anything that could even compete with a 996 TTS.
Aston at least has the manual v12 vantage S, which can't compete for handling but just as a matter of taste could be better than a 911 or GT4 for some enthusiasts, and I wouldn't roll my eyes at them. But there aren't a lot of other things AM has made that are in that conversation, and there are certainly many Porsches I would rather drive than any Aston. Which isn't a slight against Aston, because they are very nice, we're just in the "best of the best" conversation here.
Lambo and Ferrari are reasonable to put on that next level, with the commensurate price increase obviously... They certainly make cars that are better than most things Porsche makes. But as noted, the 918 is in the conversation with both of them, and frankly a GT3RS is, too, just for pure performance. I think everything being equal most enthusiasts would rather be driving a Huracan Performante than any 911, unless you're a manual snob, which you probably should be. The long and short of it is that even though you'd put those two companies above Porsche it's not like there's a massive gap.
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Without hesitation, Porsche belongs in the conversation of best manufacturer in the world.
I’d put the Carrera GT and 918 up against any Lambo, McLaren or Ferrari.
Aston Martin hasn’t built a car this century that’s better than the equivalent Porsche (IMO), and I don’t think the 20th century is any better for them. And the less said about Bentley, the better - they’re not exotic enough to justify the outrageous price. Either go all in and get a Rolls, or dial it back to a Jaguar.
And that’s without getting into any of the myriad 911 GT3 4RS AWD TurboE whatevers that bridge the gulf between the Macans and the 918.
That said, the Vanquish is my OG Dream Car.
It bears mentioning as well, the worst drivers in the world, bar none, drive Macans and Cayennes.
I don't really want to get into a semantics debate, but none of what you said has anything to do with my first post.
I was simply referring to (only) the cachet, prestige, whatever, of the brand as a whole and in that (singular) regard, Porsche stands on its own.
The 918 being a better car than a Huracan or Aventador has nothing to do with Lamborghini being a more prestigious brand than Porsche.
Agree to disagree with your opinion of Bentleys...
Agree to agree with you on the Vanquish, warts and all
I get what you guys are saying about Porsche. Porsche is one of the most reliable manufacturers on the planet, and builds some of the most amazing cars. But drive down the street and most people won't give them a second glance over a Ferrari, Lambo, or Aston and that's down to rarity. Porsche make such damn good cars and -- because they aren't priced to the moon -- you actually see them around a lot.
I would happily own one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814
That said, the Vanquish is my OG Dream Car.
You'll appreciate this, then:
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I was simply referring to (only) the cachet, prestige, whatever, of the brand as a whole and in that (singular) regard, Porsche stands on its own.
Ok, but do you mean among car enthusiasts or the general public at large? Because if it's the latter then I think Audi is below Mercedes and BMW, while Porsche is definitely above Bentley (most people don't even think of Bentley).
And I'm surprised you left off Maserati. For some reason, people who don't know anything about cars seem to think Maseratis are really fancy and high-end. Presumably it's just the "Italian = good" thing.
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Ok, but do you mean among car enthusiasts or the general public at large? Because if it's the latter then I think Audi is below Mercedes and BMW, while Porsche is definitely above Bentley (most people don't even think of Bentley).
And I'm surprised you left off Maserati. For some reason, people who don't know anything about cars seem to think Maseratis are really fancy and high-end. Presumably it's just the "Italian = good" thing.
I was making a general observation, but I suppose it mostly resonates among the general population and less so amongst other car enthusiasts... Any maybe that's why it's turned in to a bit of a debate - we (as enthusiasts) know more about the car and can see past the badge on the hood.
I cannot agree that Porsche (as a brand only) has more prestige than Bentley, regardless of how often "most people" think of Bentley.
Maserati is actually a great example - the brand is perceived as very high end by the general public (maybe even 'exotic'?), despite the fact that everyone participating in this thread knows better .
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Ok, but do you mean among car enthusiasts or the general public at large? Because if it's the latter then I think Audi is below Mercedes and BMW, while Porsche is definitely above Bentley (most people don't even think of Bentley).
And I'm surprised you left off Maserati. For some reason, people who don't know anything about cars seem to think Maseratis are really fancy and high-end. Presumably it's just the "Italian = good" thing.
You&me is correct that the public perceives Bentleys and Astons as more glamorous than Porsche.
Bentley builds cars that are elegant, sumptuous, and powerful - if their slogan was “Old Money”, the most rabid Bernie Sanders supporter would say “well, that is who they’re for.”
You get a Bentley because you want the world to know you’ve arrived. When you’ve never paid $25k for a set of winter tires, but get a thrill out of it anyway because now you can.
You spend the extra $150k to get one of the four Mulliner clocks they put in Bentaygas each year so that the next time you’re engaging in a bit of falconry with the Sultan of Brunei, you have something to hold over him.
My thinking with Bentley is simply that if I’m spending that kind money, I can get something more interesting.
Porsche builds, arguably, the best cars in the world, both as passenger carriers and ultra high performance machines. JD Power’s single most reliable vehicle in the world is the 911. There’s an understated quality to their design as well - they’re not something out the margins of a 16 year old’s algebra homework like a Pagani or Lamborghini.
I don’t know if I’ll ever make the Aston Martin dream come true; if I don’t make the Porsche happen at some point, I will have ####ed up.
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From what I know of Porsche, Lambo and Ferrari, and I have fairly limited knowledge, is the Porsche is built like most mass production vehichles, and they hold up as such.
Lambo and Ferrari are hand finished and decked to the nines on the outside, but their underpinnings are a lot more, not sure how to describe it. Hand built and not very pretty. functional but not necessarily durable. Built for performance but not year round driving and high mileage. They just don't hold up as well to the rigors of day to day use where you can drive a 911 year round as a daily and expect normal maintenance with the mileage.
Again I've only seen a couple Lambos and Ferraris up close and personal and I love em, but they are more special purpose cars.
From what I know of Porsche, Lambo and Ferrari, and I have fairly limited knowledge, is the Porsche is built like most mass production vehichles, and they hold up as such.
Lambo and Ferrari are hand finished and decked to the nines on the outside, but their underpinnings are a lot more, not sure how to describe it. Hand built and not very pretty. functional but not necessarily durable. Built for performance but not year round driving and high mileage. They just don't hold up as well to the rigors of day to day use where you can drive a 911 year round as a daily and expect normal maintenance with the mileage.
Again I've only seen a couple Lambos and Ferraris up close and personal and I love em, but they are more special purpose cars.
That used to be more true, but long gone are the days of Luigi hand pounding fenders for the Italians. Production techniques are pretty standard and modern across the board and I wouldn't call a current production Lambo or Ferrari any more "delicate" than a contemporary Porsche.
That used to be more true, but long gone are the days of Luigi hand pounding fenders for the Italians. Production techniques are pretty standard and modern across the board and I wouldn't call a current production Lambo or Ferrari any more "delicate" than a contemporary Porsche.
Just more flammable.
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