Brad Treliving needs to go

[stone hands]

maybe winning in the nhl has more to do with the players on the ice than the guy who tells them what to do before they go out for a shift


maybe what makes cup contenders is building around superstars and not 2nd liners


maybe we have a 22 page thread where fans of the same mediocre team are getting heated at each other over which mediocre coach underachieved harder

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

If you can't follow the flow of the conversation that's on you.

Sent from my GFY-1000 using a good old fashioned keyboard.

In fact, it was more Hartley being compared to guys like that.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Norm? Keep putting up them straw men.

Why bring up teams that are completely stacked and have Stanley Cups? How about comparing apples to apples? Unless you are suggesting the Flames have the same level of talent of the teams you are referencing? I don't want to build a straw man, because you seem to be very capable of doing that yourself Mr. Bolger, just want to know why you're selecting the teams you are? Maybe a more fair comparison would be the team up the highway from Calgary? How about looking at their track record under middling to no-name coaches and the turnaround they made with a proven experienced coach??

[DeluxeMoustache]

Yeah Hartley is in the past and I don’t know why we are talking about him. Tre inherited him and fired him first chance he got.

As for Ward, he has a ‘short leash’ with fans because he was hired by a guy with a dubious at best record of coaching hires, is inexperienced, and the roster is supposed to be done with the rebuild. This is the window.

Expectations for the roster are high as they were the second best team in the league 2 seasons ago, and some key positions have been improved on

Most people understand realistically that the Flames are stuck with Tre’s hire for at least this year and probably next

But expectations for the roster are high, and most games this year have been, well.. not that great

This city has seen years frittered away on bad coaches before. After enduring Brent years, and the blowup, I finally dropped my season tix between Gulutzan year 1 and 2. (You know, when the team and coaching were so painful that you would be fortunate to recoup STH cost if you couldn’t go.)

Some people look at what’s happening on the ice, and think the coach is accountable for his part in it.

Hey, Ward may possibly turn out to be great. Tre may be the smartest guy in the room. And either way, we can realistically expect we are stuck with him

Or... maybe Ward turns out to be pretty much what the evidence right in front of our faces has been indicating. That’s the whole problem.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

In fact, it was more Hartley being compared to guys like that.

Relax bro.
We all get you are the smartest guy in the room with an opinion on everything.

You need a beer or get Mommy to warm up some milk and have a nap.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah Hartley is in the past and I don’t know why we are talking about him. Tre inherited him and fired him first chance he got. .

Nope.

Treliving was GM for 2 full years before he gassed Hartley.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Nope.

Treliving was GM for 2 full years before he gassed Hartley.

Fully aware. Once he decided to see what they had with him, you think he was going to fire him immediately after the Jack Adams?

No, that’s why he gave him the next year. And the three goalies that are better than two

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

In fact, it was more Hartley being compared to guys like that.

Okay, excuse the confusion. When Jacks said "Are you seriously trying to say that Gallant wasn't a huge part of Vegas making the cup finals in their first season?" and you replied with "I’m saying both Fla and Vegas have moved on from him without missing a beat," you were really talking about Bob Hartley? My mistake. Mea culpa.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

Why bring up teams that are completely stacked and have Stanley Cups? How about comparing apples to apples? Unless you are suggesting the Flames have the same level of talent of the teams you are referencing? I don't want to build a straw man, because you seem to be very capable of doing that yourself Mr. Bolger, just want to know why you're selecting the teams you are? Maybe a more fair comparison would be the team up the highway from Calgary? How about looking at their track record under middling to no-name coaches and the turnaround they made with a proven experienced coach??

LOL - they’ve hired Ken Hitchcock and Kevin McClelland before.

All I said was there ain’t one road to a good coach. If you want examples of not “stacked teams” how about the Flames hiring Bob Johnson in 1982. And Tampa wasn’t a stacked team when Cooper was hired - they were fresh out of missing the POs. They had a young Stamkos and a younger Hedman, and a really old MSL. They hired Cooper, Yzerman built a good team, and they grew together.

Boston’s “stacked team” missed the POs 2 years running before Sullivan took over, under an experienced cup winning guy I’m betting a lot of posters are going to be asking to be hired here.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

Okay, excuse the confusion. When Jacks said "Are you seriously trying to say that Gallant wasn't a huge part of Vegas making the cup finals in their first season?" and you replied with "I’m saying both Fla and Vegas have moved on from him without missing a beat," you were really talking about Bob Hartley? My mistake. Mea culpa.

In that particular sentence I was talking about Gallant. And yeah, the comparison of Gallant in that discussion was with Hartley. The topic being whether the success (in Hartley’s case, a playoff round win) was team based or coach based. Follow the conversation.

[Igottago]

I don't think many people are thinking Hartley should be the coach of the team right now. The point is, people want results, bottom line. The funnest part of following a hockey team is when they win. As Flames fans, we seldom get to experience that. The Hartley team at least gave us a taste of it.
You can argue until your blue in the face about how good or bad coaches are, but unless you can back it up with the most important result, winning, it doesn't matter. I was arguing with people who were thinking Gulutzan was just fine while the wheels were falling of on the ice. Doesn't seem like a lot of people would make that argument now. Winning is the ultimate evidence. Hartley got better playoff result than any coach who came after him (thus far) -- not a controversial statement. If Ward can outdo that I won't even need to proclaim he's better, it will just be self evident. But he has a lot of work to do to make that happen.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Again, you seem to think I am arguing in favour of Ward. I’m not.

At the same time, who did Boston, Pittsburgh, or TB go for to turn things around? I’m in favour of an experienced and well known coach just for the “I’m the boss, not you players” factor. But it’s not like plenty of teams haven’t gone with a guy with little NHL head coaching experience with great results.

I actually agree that "NHL head coaching experience" is overrated. You have to start somewhere.

But I also think that you can look at a guy's body of work in their recent head coaching stints at lower levels. For instance, the Leafs' coach, Sheldon Keefe, had a superior resume as a Head Coach to Ryan Huska or Geoff Ward or Ray Edwards. Sullivan had Pittsburgh's farm team absolutely rolling when they promoted him. Cooper had won, at the very least, at the USHL level, and may even have won at the AHL level although my recollection is fuzzy. Cassidy was less proven, but even then, he had the Bruins' farm team playing better than the Flames' farm team has under Huska or MacLean (I actually like MacLean's coaching, for the record.)

If you look at the Avs' head coach, he was a rookie when they brought him in.. but he had also just won at the AHL level. And yes, they even faltered under him, finishing DFL his first year, but he had earned some leeway with his success at lower levels. Success that happened since the removal of the two line offside rule, that is.

Of course there's a ton of nuance, and I'm not oblvious to it. Some farm teams focus on development primarily. Winning and losing in this sport can come down to bounces.

But I am not convinced Treliving has shown he is successfully able to filter out said nuances.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

Okay, excuse the confusion. When Jacks said "Are you seriously trying to say that Gallant wasn't a huge part of Vegas making the cup finals in their first season?" and you replied with "I’m saying both Fla and Vegas have moved on from him without missing a beat," you were really talking about Bob Hartley? My mistake. Mea culpa.

If you can't follow the flow of the conversation that's on you.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Fully aware. Once he decided to see what they had with him, you think he was going to fire him immediately after the Jack Adams?

No, that’s why he gave him the next year. And the three goalies that are better than two

And thats why Ward deserves at least ONE full season....no?

People are making declarations that Ward is no good as a head coach and to suggest anything otherwise is a reason to get dogpiled by those who literally, have no clue if the are correct or not....and it's not because they aren't astute observers of the game, its because there is not enough data to come to such a conclusion.

And then others move the goalposts and it circles around to the exact same thing...its quite amusing actually.

As for the 3 goalie thing....that was 100% on BT was it not? I really dont remember other than it was a debacle.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No. Treliving approached the Canucks for permission to interview Green, and they declined because he was already lined up to become their next head coach. In addition to Green, Jim Montgomery was also among the rumoured candidates in his 2016 search.

If Treliving does get another coaching hire, I would bet on him pushing hard to get one of these two guys.

Montgomery I remember hearing about, but I believe that you are wrong about Green. I specifically remember the Flames not inquiring about Green, but just asking permission from the Canucks for Gulutzan. I did remember that Treliving interviewed a lot of candidates - a large number of them from what I remember, but Gulutzan was the only one associated with the Canucks, and the only one they asked for permission to speak with.



Found it:


https://vancouversun.com/sports/hock...d-coaching-gig

According to Vancouver general manager Jim Benning, the Calgary Flames asked for permission to speak with Gulutzan, the Canucks’ assistant coach. But they have yet to ask for permission to speak to Green, the successful Utica Comets head coach, as a possible replacement for the fired Bob Hartley.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If you can't follow the flow of the conversation that's on you.

It is indeed.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And thats why Ward deserves at least ONE full season....no?

People are making declarations that Ward is no good as a head coach and to suggest anything otherwise is a reason to get dogpiled by those who literally, have no clue if the are correct or not....and it's not because they aren't astute observers of the game, its because there is not enough data to come to such a conclusion.

And then others move the goalposts and it circles around to the exact same thing...its quite amusing actually.

As for the 3 goalie thing....that was 100% on BT was it not? I really dont remember other than it was a debacle.

The thing is, people have confidence in prior track records. That is the case in sports and in other businesses. If a company is hiring a sales director they usually want evidence of a solid track record in that type of role. Ward just wasn't a confidence inspiring appointment as a head coach (again). And so far he hasn't done enough to dispel that lack of confidence. Sure, he could do better than anyone thought, but people can only go with what they've seen so far.

As far as deserving a year...I don't think anyone really deserves the role unless the results are there. This is the NHL, and the Flames aren't a young rebuilding team. Expectations are high, and you can easily burn through good years waiting for people to grow into roles. However, I do think Treliving thinks more along the lines you mentioned. Ward will get his full opportunity of this season at least. Whether that is the right or wrong approach..remains to be seen. But so far the evidence hasn't been in his favour. I honestly hope he turns it around the becomes the best coach in Flames history. We'll see.

[t0rrent98]

fire tre, bring in pierre mcquire!!!!!!!!

[Textcritic]

^
On that note, I would recommend that we focus the conversation on the General Manager, and leave coach-criticisms to the very well-used coaching thread already on the board.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Igottago

The thing is, people have confidence in prior track records. That is the case in sports and in other businesses. If a company is hiring a sales director they usually want evidence of a solid track record in that type of role. Ward just wasn't a confidence inspiring appointment as a head coach (again). And so far he hasn't done enough to dispel that lack of confidence. Sure, he could do better than anyone thought, but people can only go with what they've seen so far.

As far as deserving a year...I don't think anyone really deserves the role unless the results are there. This is the NHL, and the Flames aren't a young rebuilding team. Expectations are high, and you can easily burn through good years waiting for people to grow into roles. However, I do think Treliving thinks more along the lines you mentioned. Ward will get his full opportunity of this season at least. Whether that is the right or wrong approach..remains to be seen. But so far the evidence hasn't been in his favour. I honestly hope he turns it around the becomes the best coach in Flames history. We'll see.

Agreed.

Here are the results thus far

33-24-4 regular season

5-5 play-IN/playoff games

Fireable?