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Old 09-29-2013, 09:26 AM   #1
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Default Buying a house in the flood zone - would you?

As I mentioned in an other thread, my wife and are looking for a house these days. However, it seems like a lot of our favorite neighborhoods (Inglewood, Sunnyside etc) were hit to varying degrees by the flood. We love those neighborhoods because of their proximity to downtown and the river parks etc, but are not sure whether they should be on our list anymore.

What would your risk tolerance be? Would you buy a house that had overland flooding? What if it was only sewer backup?

I also wonder how this has affected the market in those areas. From one agent we talked to at an open house in Sunnyside (who was selling a house), he says nothing has sold since the flood. But he thinks its only a matter of time before people come around again.

For those who are in the flood zones, how have your insurance rates been affected?
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:49 AM   #2
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I think there's room to take advantage and profit from some hysteria and stereotypes. All parts of the "flood plain" are not the same, but many people don't realize that. For instance anything north of Kensington Road / West of 14th is a good 5-6 feet higher than Memorial and at an advantage. I keep an eye on housing values in the area and can say that Hillhurst / West Hillhurst has not seen a significant drop in pricing. Activity might have slowed some, but I still see $1.4M newly built infills moving in the 10th St to 14th St sweet spot. Sunnyside might have be painted with a broader brush regarding to flooding issues though.

The City evac maps are a handy way to gauge who's most likely at risk.

I'd also factor in to potential purchase costs some flood proofing costs - ie a backflow preventer.

You might want to model out some "worst case scenarios" around if the 1/100 flood does hit and the basement floods - what restoration costs would be. If it's a $50K hit, and you're able to exact a $100K reduction on a house from FMV (for example), I'd weight it up against the benefits of living in these areas in a classic cost/benefit equation for the remaining 99 years it doesn't flood.
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:50 AM   #3
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We're pretty conservative right now as a lending body in regards to homes in flood zones.

It's important to recognize that even getting a preapproval (hate that term - prequalify is better) doesn't mean your lender will finance any property.
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:19 AM   #4
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Deegee, I'm curious to know what traits you look for when it comes to deciding whether to approve a home in the flood zone.

I agree that there is a little bit of paralysis right now in the market in those areas...but perhaps there is some incentive to buy now because of it. As you said IHH, it depends on how much money (if any) you can save compared to the risk you're taking on. I'd be curious to find out how much money a full on basement clean up takes.
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Old 09-29-2013, 12:22 PM   #5
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I'd take the risk, but the Wife wouldn't.
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Old 09-29-2013, 12:34 PM   #6
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Could you buy a 30 ft lot in Sunnyside for 300-400k?
I haven't found one on the lower end of that range, but I have seen some places that you could knock down in the 400s.
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Old 09-29-2013, 01:01 PM   #7
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I'd say Inglewood is now safe from catastrophic flooding. Basements got a few inches from watertable, but if you just finish your floors in a way that's a little more flood resistant (polished concrete or something), you won't be too bad. The berms have pretty much protected that area.
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Old 09-29-2013, 05:44 PM   #8
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Where those berms there pre flood, or are they new?
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Old 09-29-2013, 09:06 PM   #9
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As Calgary proper is not our sandbox per say, right now we are mostly using the map available by the City and if a home falls in the floodway part of the map we will let someone else finance it.

Other places must be doing something, because the brokers we deal with are including copies of the map in their deals to verify a property is not in the floodway, I just can't speak to what they are doing.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:07 AM   #10
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This whole thread is just Table 5 actually saying "Buying a house in the Bigtime zone - would you?"

Seriously though, speaking to Sunnyside in particular I would try and find a home that has all the living space you ever envision needing above grade. Take the flooding element right out of the equation (or seriously minimize it).

We are now discussing the possibility of buying another home on our street and tearing it down and build new, and we would build 3 floors above grade and have no basement. The ground level floor can be finished with flood resistant materials and the only two entry points for water would be the front and back door, that we could guard against.

On my block there are currently two homes for sale (only one on MLS so far):

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetail...Key=-866403208

The other home is just across the street from this one, and is about 1800sf and has a secondary suite in the basement (fully rebuilt post flood), they are looking for $875,000 for it. I am very curious to see how these two properties do, in addition we have Stonebriar Crafted Homes building an infill too. I'm guessing that one when done will list for around $1.2M.

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Old 09-30-2013, 11:34 AM   #11
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I'll give my 2 cents as well.

If you are looking to do an infill or even in general, I would think about Bigtimes advice on building design. It probably will help you with insurance and the Bank, although that is not a guarantee.

I live down the block from him and ours was one of the few that actually was pure sewer backup. Our house sits only 4.5 feet into the ground and the windows are 1.5 ft above grade. No water came in via door, window, or wall/floor cracks. It all cam through the floor drain and bathroom plumbing.

We had no back flow or sump, so I just got those installed. Total bill for both was $3800, but I got an upgrade on the sump (battery backup) so you could put both in for $3300.

Now the question is if this will actually do anything. That I cannot answer until the next time. In theory my walls should hold again, and the back flow should work. Sump is there just in case.

For Sunnyside, it is a good question. However, I think it is a case by case in how the home flooded, and what has been done since to prevent future flood. Another very good question to ask is if it flood once or twice or more since 2009. If it basement flooded in July 2013 a second time (when outfalls were closed) it is in a much more risky spot. We didn't, but homes just down the street did. Really it is your topography mixed with what sewer line you are on. The sewer system in our community that needs upgrading/redesign, and although the city says they understand, well 2009 they said the same thing.

So, am I saying don't buy in Sunnyside? Of course not, but realize that it is not a simple answer. There are a few homes there not even in a floodway to start. I would look at the maps, then ask if the home was ever flooded. Second ask how many times since 2009 the home has flooded. Then ask how the water entered the home. Then see what steps have been taken to protect the home in future. Maybe even look at the water table around the home if possible. That should give you some confidence.

So on its face that may scare off some folks, however if you do buy into Sunnyside, especially our area of Sunnyside, you buy into something pretty special (not Oilers special). Anyways, I have been there 4 years and would not think living anywhere else. It really is a hidden gem in Calgary, and my wife and I are looking of ways to make it work here instead of leaving. It is just too good.
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
This whole thread is just Table 5 actually saying "Buying a house in the Bigtime zone - would you?"

Seriously though, speaking to Sunnyside in particular I would try and find a home that has all the living space you ever envision needing above grade. Take the flooding element right out of the equation (or seriously minimize it).

We are now discussing the possibility of buying another home on our street and tearing it down and build new, and we would build 3 floors above grade and have no basement. The ground level floor can be finished with flood resistant materials and the only two entry points for water would be the front and back door, that we could guard against.

On my block there are currently two homes for sale (only one on MLS so far):

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetail...Key=-866403208

The other home is just across the street from this one, and is about 1800sf and has a secondary suite in the basement (fully rebuilt post flood), they are looking for $875,000 for it. I am very curious to see how these two properties do, in addition we have Stonebriar Crafted Homes building an infill too. I'm guessing that one when done will list for around $1.2M.
Ahhh....the 'Mother-in-Law' suite, when it floods you just slide the deadbolt and cover your ears.....
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:40 PM   #13
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Where those berms there pre flood, or are they new?
They were finally completed after about a 20 year effort in 2012. As a result, Inglewood didn't get any overland flooding this year. It may be that in the update of the flood mapping (which I assume will eventually happen) Inglewood is no longer "flood fringe".
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:12 AM   #14
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Beef up the Memorial berm about another 5 feet for good measure (just send us some dirt from East Village excavations) and upgrade the storm sewer lines running N-S through Sunnyside and I bet we too could be off the flood fringe.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
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They were finally completed after about a 20 year effort in 2012. As a result, Inglewood didn't get any overland flooding this year. It may be that in the update of the flood mapping (which I assume will eventually happen) Inglewood is no longer "flood fringe".
Any idea when the update will happen? From what it sounds like may make a pretty big difference whether a mortgage is approved or not based on the flood map.
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