Alberta alienation and independence

[Wastedyouth]

I just have to say, as someone who has worked abroad in some pretty rank countries, give it a break.

Your life in the last 3-4 years is marginally harder than it was 5-6 years ago.

This is the most ridiculously over-privileged discussion I have seen in a while.

[Krovikan]

A recent IPSOS poll found only 25% of Albertans thought Alberta would be better off alone. That is to a poll with no consequences, separation isn't happening anytime soon.

I am a second generation Calgarian, the only city I've ever lived, if Alberta separated I would move to stay in Canada. We may have our issues but my travels around the US have shown me how great Canada truly is as a country.



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[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I just have to say, as someone who has worked abroad in some pretty rank countries, give it a break.

Your life in the last 3-4 years is marginally harder than it was 5-6 years ago.

This is the most ridiculously over-privileged discussion I have seen in a while.

Ah yes, never try to think about ways to better yourself because someone else has it worse!

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Would you be in favor of holding a peblicite on Alberta separation?

Only if it escalated to a full on bloody civil war for independence. Not some puny votes and political posturing. The Feds probably anticipated this was inevitable anyways and that's why they took away our submarines.

I'd also suggest we support Prince Harry for our crown and not William.

[Bunk]

Our likely reaction will be to vote out all Federal Liberals. So then we'll be in that fantastic situation where the Liberals will entirely ignore us or become actively and openly hostile because of no electoral prospects here and political advantage elsewhere in turning us into the whipping boy; and the Conservatives will simply take us for granted. Right now at least the governing party is (albeit largely ineffectively) paying some attention to us. But I fear the alternative would be even worse.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Ah yes, never try to think about ways to better yourself because someone else has it worse!

How is this bettering anyone?

The whole idea is a huge "You don't appreciate me enough, so I am going to take my ball and go home" kinda whinefest.

Stop waiting for the government to make your life easy, we already have it pretty damn easy compared to the majority of the world.

Appreciate what you have and do what you can to help your neighbors and work to make your life better and live within your means.

The government isn't stopping any of that from happening unless you let them.

[flames_fan_down_under]

No, it's not a good idea.

The histrionics are on overdrive!!

What exactly is so horrifying about your life in Alberta that you feel the need to separate, or even threaten to separate, from Canada?

Alberta leads all provinces in GDP growth this year!

Calgary is the fourth most liveable city in the entire world, ahead of Toronto and Vancouver!

Beautiful province, beautiful mountains, access to world class skiing, incredible people!

EASILY the highest median household income among all provinces.

I was born in Red Deer, lived in Olds for a bit, and spent the majority of my life in Calgary, I am pro-pipeline! But this chip on our shoulder, woe is me, everyone hates us mentality is so so so so tiring.

[Tacopuck]

Screw Separation, lets invade and take over the rest of the country.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Build a wall to keep the Newfies out and make Canada pay for it!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

If Alberta had a port I'd vote to be gone in a second.

As it stands I don't feel any pride in being Canadian anymore. This country doesn't function, there's no coherent national identity. That's no more evident in the large amount of "Canadians" taking glee in Alberta's pain right now. We're a loose conglomeration of territories that basically came together by acciddent

If Alberta had a port are we even having this discussion? Seems like we would have a pretty easy time getting the oil to tidewater.

I don’t know that I buy the idea that we are only identified by our oil industry though. That basically surmises that once we get (another) pipe to tidewater that we’re all set. I have a hard time believing that. I wonder about the whole idea of western alienation to begin with though, in part because having a PM from here for a decade didn’t seem to make a significant difference.

[DiracSpike]

You guys can play dumb, compare Alberta to Ethiopia or whatever, and cite "livability" surveys all you want but people are pissed off and they have a right to be.

Our crude is the cheapest in the world, 100% due to Government ineptitude, which is weird because the Feds spring into action any time the 200 Dairy farmers in Quebec might lose their cartel. But somehow 50 million a day leaving the Oil Industry in Alberta is no big deal. Record Downtown vacancy because of this. Highest unemployment in decades because of this. Rising municipal taxes because of this. Hurting stock portfolios and pensions because of this. Beaten down attitude and spike in suicides because of this. Restaurants bars and other small businesses closing all over the place because of this. Plummetting real estate values because of this. All the while met with ambivalence or delight by a significant portion of people in this "country". To be put in this position by vocal anti-pipeline advocates who are the equivalent of anti-vaxxers in their ignorance and entrenchment only make this more infuriating, and all the while the Federal Government, which is supposed to look out for the entire country and should be smarter, has let it happen. Yeah people are feeling alienated and they should.

[iggy_oi]

Dirac are you under the impression that Quebec is the only province with a dairy industry?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Tacopuck

Screw Separation, lets invade and take over the rest of the country.

Why buy trouble with an invasion, a good artillary barrage followed by air strikes will take care of the other provinces.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

You guys can play dumb, compare Alberta to Ethiopia or whatever, and cite "livability" surveys all you want but people are pissed off and they have a right to be.

Our crude is the cheapest in the world, 100% due to Government ineptitude, which is weird because the Feds spring into action any time the 200 Dairy farmers in Quebec might lose their cartel. But somehow 50 million a day leaving the Oil Industry in Alberta is no big deal. Record Downtown vacancy because of this. Highest unemployment in decades because of this. Rising municipal taxes because of this. Hurting stock portfolios and pensions because of this. Beaten down attitude and spike in suicides because of this. Restaurants bars and other small businesses closing all over the place because of this. Plummetting real estate values because of this. All the while met with ambivalence or delight by a significant portion of people in this "country". To be put in this position by vocal anti-pipeline advocates who are the equivalent of anti-vaxxers in their ignorance and entrenchment only make this more infuriating, and all the while the Federal Government, which is supposed to look out for the entire country and should be smarter, has let it happen. Yeah people are feeling alienated and they should.

Boohoo.

Albertan entitlement is all that is wrong with this province.

[PepsiFree]

What is most odd is people talking about the financial benefit from separating (no transfer payments, pipelines somehow getting easier).

I think this dangerously naive, a “grass is always greener” situation. Separation is not simply “we’re on our own now,” and you can look at Brexit as an example. There are a HUGE number of factors to work out, including what currency we’ll be using, what happens to existing infrastructure that is owned by Canada and not Alberta, and a myriad of trade agreements that would have to happen (among many other things).

There’s no way that separation makes for a stronger or more economically viable Alberta. We become a small landlocked area without any deals or support of the countries around us, and that’s very bad for business.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

You guys can play dumb, compare Alberta to Ethiopia or whatever, and cite "livability" surveys all you want but people are pissed off and they have a right to be.

Our crude is the cheapest in the world, 100% due to Government ineptitude, which is weird because the Feds spring into action any time the 200 Dairy farmers in Quebec might lose their cartel. But somehow 50 million a day leaving the Oil Industry in Alberta is no big deal. Record Downtown vacancy because of this. Highest unemployment in decades because of this. Rising municipal taxes because of this. Hurting stock portfolios and pensions because of this. Beaten down attitude and spike in suicides because of this. Restaurants bars and other small businesses closing all over the place because of this. Plummetting real estate values because of this. All the while met with ambivalence or delight by a significant portion of people in this "country". To be put in this position by vocal anti-pipeline advocates who are the equivalent of anti-vaxxers in their ignorance and entrenchment only make this more infuriating, and all the while the Federal Government, which is supposed to look out for the entire country and should be smarter, has let it happen. Yeah people are feeling alienated and they should.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What is most odd is people talking about the financial benefit from separating (no transfer payments, pipelines somehow getting easier).

I think this dangerously naive, a “grass is always greener” situation. Separation is not simply “we’re on our own now,” and you can look at Brexit as an example. There are a HUGE number of factors to work out, including what currency we’ll be using, what happens to existing infrastructure that is owned by Canada and not Alberta, and a myriad of trade agreements that would have to happen (among many other things).

There’s no way that separation makes for a stronger or more economically viable Alberta. We become a small landlocked area without any deals or support of the countries around us, and that’s very bad for business.

Quebec had an expectation that if they had voted yes to separation that they would continue to use Canadian Currency, continue to use Canadian passports, all the infrastructure that belonged to the government federally would shift to the province, Quebec based armed forces units would go to a Quebec militia, and the Federal Government never ever said "Ah no that's not how its going to work" if they had the result wouldn't have been as close as it was.


And because the federal Governments never stepped in and said no, Seperation anxiety lived a lot longer then it should have and Quebec was able to use it to continually blackmail Canada.

[DiracSpike]

Haha two idiots in right away proving my point about other Canadians being happy about Alberta's situation right now.

It's not entitlement to want the government to get out of the way while allowing a stable regulatory environment, which they've failed to do. That's literally the basic function of government

[flames_fan_down_under]

edit: nevermind

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

what happens to existing infrastructure that is owned by Canada and not Alberta, and a myriad of trade agreements that would have to happen (among many other things).

We'd also have to cross borders anytime we wanted to go to the Grey Eagle for a concert. Getting out of that parking lot was already bad enough.