The Canadian Premier League thread

[shermanator]

So, going forward, should I update this thread or no?

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by shermanator

So, going forward, should I update this thread or no?

Do you really think you can’t?

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...161991&page=29

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by shermanator

So, going forward, should I update this thread or no?

I hope you do, unless you decide its not worth trying to salvage... most of us are pissed off, but aren't quite ready to add Cavalry to the Calgary soccer scrap heap yet.

Not going to lie, I talked to a few people that are hoping for CSEC to step in with a rival franchise out of McMahon in the next couple years. I would probably rather support that myself, but I'm not ready to completely abandon this.

[shermanator]

I'm not ready to throw in the towel, but they have lost all good will they had with me. If I'm questioning buying season tickets, they've screwed up bad. And while I share the sentiment in the last few days, I think some of it is a little hyperbolic.

From my perspective, I think if people are genuinely interested, then it is worth buying tickets in the $13-29 range. Show the club that there is interest in the product, but don't let them think that they can gouge the people. Spruce Meadows needs to learn that this is completely different than equestrian, and that there is a genuine interest in a soccer team in this city, but if they think they can be another CSEC, then they will fail, period.

And if you share the thoughts in the paragraph above, I hope that some of you will join me in the supporters section. I thought the supporters group would have had more of a voice as is, but I can't do much with only a few dozen people. We are the passion that the club promotes, but we won't have much leverage until we grow.

[browna]

Not defending or criticizing. But they've tried it before with cheaper tix. Pdl Storm. When they moved to the A league and doubled the prices, it didn't pay for the opex and they folded after a year.

So, now given operating expenses, knowing with a lot of that travel for 25 or more across the country, nevermind player salaries more than what the A league was, and no major revenue streams at a league level, like a tv contract, they have to make that up, or mitigate losses.

Besides corporate support, they want to make up those opex expenses by fans that are willing to come out and pay whatever as opposed to hoping to hook in some more casual fans at $40.

It's an uphill battle, league wide. Do you choose cheaper seats and hope to attract 3000 people paying $40 game in and gsme out, with a chance that bad weather means you get 1800 paying those prices or, do you want 1500 people, in theory more committed, and at worst, more money in the bank up front, to be paying $80, as your ticket base?

They're taking the second approach, given the failures of the previous business model, and hoping they will get a smaller more dedicated (with their $) fan base then instead begging and pleading and hoping to get volume attendance with casual fans.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by gb450

I visited the Cavalry FC kiosk today at the Spruce Meadows Christmas Market and I spoke with a rep about the season ticket prices and voiced my displeasure at the pricing scheme. He explained the rationale for the ticket prices were that no other facility in the CPL has what Spruce Meadows has, as far as environment. He also attempted to explain that they have “a lot of corporate sponsorship” backing them, and essentially they only need to augment their seats with fans. Not sure if to take his comments with a grain of salt or not, but noteworthy nonetheless.

That sounds like the complete opposite of what they should be doing then. If their corporate sponsorships are so big, they should be basically giving away their tickets to get strong fan support out to the games.

[Slava]

I assume that this huge corporate sponsorship is Atco and related companies? If that’s the case, it’s great, but doesn’t really indicate huge strength.

I’m torn on whether to buy seasons tickets. I like the idea and will head to some games for sure. I just think I would prefer to check it out and see the product and atmosphere before I pay more than double what I expected. I do want to see good atmosphere though, and that’s worrisome because these tickets are so expensive and undoubtedly that will keep crowds down.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by browna

Not defending or criticizing. But they've tried it before with cheaper tix. Pdl Storm. When they moved to the A league and doubled the prices, it didn't pay for the opex and they folded after a year.

They're taking the second approach, given the failures of the previous business model, and hoping they will get a smaller more dedicated (with their $) fan base then instead begging and pleading and hoping to get volume attendance with casual fans.

Charging 3-5 times any other CPL team sounds like a no brainer for success.

[Ozy_Flame]

As much as I liked the venue, I suspected having Spruce Meadows involved meant they would be controlling much of the pricing structure. This screams to me that they do not see any difference between watching horses jump and watching a ball being kicked around; as long as the people are showing up they are treated no differently in terms of the "Spruce Meadows" experience. I bet they fully expect them to peruse the grounds and catch a horse-jumping event while they're at it.

And charging for parking - especially at the rates they are - is nothing short of extortion for what equates to tier III professional soccer. Yikes.

[mac_82]

Just chatted with a few friends in Toronto who have TFC seasons tickets. They pay $650 a season to be in the upper section of the west grandstand. It was $560 two years ago. 17 regular MLS home matches and CCL matches. Supporters section tickets are still $300.

Unfortunately for me, Cavalry pricing is turning me from a potential season ticket holder into a 1-2 games per year person. Similar to what I do for the Okotoks Dawgs. But I enjoy soccer a lot more than baseball.

Hard to get to stadium + charging for parking + high ticket prices + low quality product = good luck not folding in the first 2 years.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by shermanator

So, going forward, should I update this thread or no?

I certainly hope so. I think that everyone here wants it to succeed, even if a lot of the discussion won't be puppy dogs and rainbows. I'd love to be proven wrong on my criticisms of the club's front office.

I hope that you don't feel that the negativity is in any way directed at you. I appreciate your dedication and efforts as much as ever, and I can only imagine how it feels to try and digest some of these decisions after investing so much time and energy into growing soccer in this city.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by mac_82

Just chatted with a few friends in Toronto who have TFC seasons tickets. They pay $650 a season to be in the upper section of the west grandstand. It was $560 two years ago. 17 regular MLS home matches and CCL matches. Supporters section tickets are still $300.

Unfortunately for me, Cavalry pricing is turning me from a potential season ticket holder into a 1-2 games per year person. Similar to what I do for the Okotoks Dawgs. But I enjoy soccer a lot more than baseball.

Hard to get to stadium + charging for parking + high ticket prices + low quality product = good luck not folding in the first 2 years.

Yup spoke to a friend in New Jersey and they sent me this

NY Red Bulls -- last three seasons. renewed for fourth.
across 17 games, comes to $19 a seat -

my buddies and I will have 9 seats in the corner, front row next season - theres 8 of us.. so we'll make $ on the 9th

those are lower mid price seats -- two levels up in the pricing i think. cheaper in second deck in ends.. stadium is good size, no bad seats.. paying $30+ per seat in the middle not worth it to me.
all sorts of deals on merch and fast access to beer lines.

[Traditional_Ale]

Is it time for us to ask CP for a Jihad against Cavalry/Spruce Meadows? Last good one I remember is Wannamaker, and this seems like the most relevant and worthy cause since.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Is it time for us to ask CP for a Jihad against Cavalry/Spruce Meadows? Last good one I remember is Wannamaker, and this seems like the most relevant and worthy cause since.

Make the prices as cheap as rice is!

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Make the prices fair and in line with the rest of the league.

Fyp.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

I certainly hope so. I think that everyone here wants it to succeed, even if a lot of the discussion won't be puppy dogs and rainbows. I'd love to be proven wrong on my criticisms of the club's front office.

I hope that you don't feel that the negativity is in any way directed at you. I appreciate your dedication and efforts as much as ever, and I can only imagine how it feels to try and digest some of these decisions after investing so much time and energy into growing soccer in this city.

Trust me, I am not happy at all about this. And this is the first time I feel that the club doesn't give a damn about the grassroots group trying to make this a success, or the average person wanting to shell out their money to make this work. But I also think that the overwhelmingly negative reaction on social media over the pricing scheme won't matter one bit. And I don't know if telling them in person will matter either.

So, I have two ideas on how to get the point across:

1. Simply don't buy tickets.
2. Buy tickets, but make sure they are in the affordable sections.

[Thunderball]

Another problem I see with charging established pro-franchise level pricing that hasn't been discussed yet is that it calls into question what happens if other teams are unstable (ignoring that Spruce Meadows' decisions have raised questions as to whether the Cavs are truly the most at-risk franchise).

But lets say for fun that Cavalry gets decent support at these prices, what happens if they are right and the other teams are wrong to have such affordable price points?

If CPL had to fold, I only see Cavalry having two options, USL or also fold. Pretty unpleasant proposition for season ticket holders paying top dollar... either your pro team gets dragged under because no one else has the support base revenue wise, or it has to try to join a clear Div 2 league.

Even if they are selling out Meadows with 6-7000 per game at MLS prices, the facility and that ticket base are still way too small for MLS. Even then, if that success got Cavalry on the MLS radar, I don't think Spruce Meadows have demonstrated the cash or determination to buy in at that level.

In other words, it just feels like the risk is being downloaded onto the Corps and Battalion level ticket holders to heavily subsidize the attempt, and if it fails, well, Spruce Meadows has a new grandstand for show jumping sponsored by soccer fans.

[shermanator]

On the bright side, the club asked me to email Ian Allison with my concerns. I linked this thread as an example of what potential ticket holders are saying about the pricing scheme.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by shermanator

On the bright side, the club asked me to email Ian Allison with my concerns. I linked this thread as an example of what potential ticket holders are saying about the pricing scheme.

Please keep us updated when/if you receive a response. I will be contacting the club with my thoughts as well. Such a frustrating turn of events that just kills any momentum that they had.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by shermanator

On the bright side, the club asked me to email Ian Allison with my concerns. I linked this thread as an example of what potential ticket holders are saying about the pricing scheme.

Interesting. I wonder if he'll actually read this thread.

Could be a good indicator as to whether Spruce Meadows will be a good ownership group that the club can build with and supporters can be confident with or whether the negative things we've been saying are true.

I doubt the actual ticket prices change (even though Corps and Battalion should be at least 15-20% lower relative to the rest of CPL), but they can always introduce some face saving measures like free parking, a home or away jersey per ticket (or both!), food vouchers and other things like that to show they are listening and intent to providing maximum return.