Mark Frickin' Giordano

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Gio is quietly putting up a monster season so far. Its insane how little we talk about Gio.

In 21 games he's accumulated 20 points.

2 Goals
18 Assists

Last year he had

13 Goals
25 Assists

Just goes to show how much he had to hold back to prop up Hamilton.

[jg13]

No dman has put up 55+ points as a 35 year old or older since Lidstrom back in 2010-2011.

Giordano will most likely surpass this as long as he stays healthy.

[Huntingwhale]

He gets better as he gets older.

Hey Father Time!

[Classic_Sniper]

Just posted this in Brodie’s thread. But Gio truly is a beast.

Brodie had two -16 seasons away from Gio. This season, he’s on pace to be a +39! He probably won’t end up there, but if he did, that would be a colossal differential of +55. Absolute insanity.

[GioforPM]

Brodie's comeback is Exhibit B in Gio's Norris case. Exhibit A being his production.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Anybody know who scouted this guy?

I would love to see some media/stories on who scouted him, the tryout camp, how things progressed to a NHL contract...... etc..... cough local media cough....

Mike Sands, current Amateur Scout for the Arizona Coyotes.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Brodie's comeback is Exhibit B in Gio's Norris case. Exhibit A being his production.

Hamilton's season in Carolina is further evidence.

People (not in calgary) actually thought he was elevating Gio. Smhhhh

[---Hatrick---]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Gio is quietly putting up a monster season so far. Its insane how little we talk about Gio.

In 21 games he's accumulated 20 points.

2 Goals
18 Assists

Last year he had

13 Goals
25 Assists

It hasn’t gone unoticed. After the BOA game Saturday night, the media were talking about the game and Elliot Friedman brought up how good Gio has been this year. I believe his quote was “Is there a better D man in the NHL right now than Giordano?” Morgan Reily’s name came up but that was it.
This was after a not so good performance by Gio that night, but even the best players have an off night once in a while

[activeStick]

There was a segment even on this board after Giordano's contract, that predicted that the Flames would regret the deal before it expires. It's the usual Debbie Downer posters but it certainly wasn't unanimous on CP that it was a good deal for Calgary.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Mike Sands, current Amateur Scout for the Arizona Coyotes.

Tom Webster, old OHL bird-dog, was the guy that checked out Giordano as an overage OHLer and recommended the Flames take a flyer on him.

[Madrox]

Originally Posted by activeStick

There was a segment even on this board after Giordano's contract, that predicted that the Flames would regret the deal before it expires. It's the usual Debbie Downer posters but it certainly wasn't unanimous on CP that it was a good deal for Calgary.

I didn't think it was unreasonable to be concerned about giving a big contract to a guy that ran until he was 38, regardless of who it was. I'll admit to having some worries myself, but at the halfway point now, those are pretty well alleviated.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by activeStick

There was a segment even on this board after Giordano's contract, that predicted that the Flames would regret the deal before it expires. It's the usual Debbie Downer posters but it certainly wasn't unanimous on CP that it was a good deal for Calgary.

I was one of those posters thinking the team might regret it. But it certainly wasn't because I'm a Debbie Downer. Show me a list of players who sign 6 year deals at age 33, and I'll show you maybe a handful that actually live up to it. I'll show you even less that outperform it. Hardly a DD mentality, and more a realistic observation.

Gio looks like he might be one of those incredibly rare players who outperforms his contract at that age. Nothing is guaranteed. But it looks good so far.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I was one of those posters thinking the team might regret it. But it certainly wasn't because I'm a Debbie Downer. Show me a list of players who sign 6 year deals at age 33, and I'll show you maybe a handful that actually live up to it. I'll show you even less that outperform it. Hardly a DD mentality, and more a realistic observation.

Gio looks like he might be one of those incredibly rare players who outperforms his contract at that age. Nothing is guaranteed. But it looks good so far.

Even if at the very back end he's below that value, he's been above it for the majority of the time. Look at the players he's on par with right now for production - Burns, Carlson make $1.25M more (AAV).

[Bingo]

I did some math in the last game story ...

The average cap hit of the top ten paid defensemen in 2016-17 (Giordano at 10th) was $7.5M, meaning Giordano was a bargain by $750,000.

Year two, or 2017-18 that average jumped to $7.65M, so Giordano saved you $900K. This year it’s up to $7.8M with Giordano saving the team just over $1M a year. Through three years there is little doubt that Giordano has brought top ten defenseman value and has saved the team $2.7M in pay to play at that level.

So with three years to go on his contract, it’s getting more and more likely that the Flames may end up with value on this contract. I’d assume Giordano has at least next year as a top pairing defenseman in Calgary, leaving just two years and probably almost $4M in savings. A decline in years five and six won’t errode those gains.

Math says $4M ahead in total savings on this contract going into the final two years.

With the salaries going up, I'm guessing a 2nd pairing defenseman for his final two years will be making pretty close to $6M, so he at worst may be $1M over paid in year five and maybe $2M overpaid in year six if he falls to pairing three.

[Enoch Root]

That's a great way to look at it Bingo.

Even if he starts to tail off next year - and there is no reason to expect that at all, at this point - the deal is already fair, having had 3 bargain years.

And even though he probably won't remain a top pairing guy for all 6 years, he will remain extremely valuable to the team through his unrelenting work ethic, and - more importantly - his ability to help our young D to continue to become great NHLers.

The debate about his contract is already over.

Giordano remains one of the most under-rated players in the league. In fact, tonight we have the battle of the most under-rated, as Wheeler comes into town to square off against Gio.

[1qqaaz]

I think Gio should be the Norris frontrunner. No one else with points actually plays defense.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I was one of those posters thinking the team might regret it. But it certainly wasn't because I'm a Debbie Downer. Show me a list of players who sign 6 year deals at age 33, and I'll show you maybe a handful that actually live up to it. I'll show you even less that outperform it. Hardly a DD mentality, and more a realistic observation.

Gio looks like he might be one of those incredibly rare players who outperforms his contract at that age. Nothing is guaranteed. But it looks good so far.

I don't know why this is, but defensemen seem to be able to be effective far longer than forwards. The league is full of 35+ D who know how to battle and teams love them. Hal Gill, Ron Hainsey, Brent Sopel, Michael Roszival, Deryk Engelland types are always in demand.

Elite guys don't even decline the same. At 36, Chris Pronger and Niedermayer were a pairing on the Olympic team, and prior to a concussion ending his career, 37 year old Pronger was the best defenseman in the league.

Lidstrom won four Norris trophies after he turned 35. Chara has maybe not been Norris level since he turned 38 but he's still a fabulously effective player.

Brian Campbell is a guy who doesn't get enough respect because he signed a massive contract that had to be exiled to Florida, but he was effective until he was 38.

Maybe it's just easier to create than destroy, maybe it's getting to play the whole game with the play in front of you, but defensemen age differently.

Is Gio going to be Norris Gio at 38? Who knows. Is he going to be less than a top-4 NHL defender? I would be shocked. And in that case, he might be overpaid by a million or two. Who cares. He's earned every cent the Flames ever gave him.

[temple5]

To think in a different era DS didnt think he was even good enough to play as a 5/6 dman when we were dressing pylons at the time so he went to Russia to play hockey.

He has shown a lot more class to this organization than I would have after that. I guess piles of money and success heals all wounds.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by temple5

To think in a different era DS didnt think he was even good enough to play as a 5/6 dman when we were dressing pylons at the time so he went to Russia to play hockey.

That's not accurate, it was simply a question of salary.

Also, Gio wasn't half the player then compared to now.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I don't know why this is, but defensemen seem to be able to be effective far longer than forwards. The league is full of 35+ D who know how to battle and teams love them. Hal Gill, Ron Hainsey, Brent Sopel, Michael Roszival, Deryk Engelland types are always in demand.

Elite guys don't even decline the same. At 36, Chris Pronger and Niedermayer were a pairing on the Olympic team, and prior to a concussion ending his career, 37 year old Pronger was the best defenseman in the league.

Lidstrom won four Norris trophies after he turned 35. Chara has maybe not been Norris level since he turned 38 but he's still a fabulously effective player.

Brian Campbell is a guy who doesn't get enough respect because he signed a massive contract that had to be exiled to Florida, but he was effective until he was 38.

Maybe it's just easier to create than destroy, maybe it's getting to play the whole game with the play in front of you, but defensemen age differently.

Is Gio going to be Norris Gio at 38? Who knows. Is he going to be less than a top-4 NHL defender? I would be shocked. And in that case, he might be overpaid by a million or two. Who cares. He's earned every cent the Flames ever gave him.

One of the reasons I have heard from players, and elite defenders such as Chris Chelios, is that you can concentrate on D as you get older.

I believe it was his book where he mentioned that as he got older and his offensive abilities weren't the same, he was able to tackle the defense part of his game and still be a regular in the line up for years to come.

A goal scoring forward might be able to reinvent his game later on to be more of a checker but that might not be a role they will embrace. Also if a forward isn't producing points, team may look at other options which are younger and cheaper.

Either way, Gio's production has been there and so has almost every other aspect of an elite game. He is also 10 years younger than when Chelios retired but Gio's performance as a Flame has been nothing short of superb. The only season I ever found him to be somewhat blah, was the lockout year of 12-13.