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Old 05-16-2018, 09:23 AM   #12441
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Did I click on a Bennett thread by mistake?
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:27 AM   #12442
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It was a Backlund thread, and at one time likely a Jankowski thread.

Welcome to the Trade Speculation and Rumors thread, where its everything you want it to be!
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:31 AM   #12443
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Over and over people ignore this, Sam is almost 2 years younger than Jankowski ffs. At the same age Mark Scheifele could barely stick in the NHL and had 34 pts playing mostly 2nd center with PP time, 4 years later he's one of the better players in the league as a PPG center.

It would be an epic fail to trade Sam at 21 yrs old, if he doesn't "get it" within 2 years then fine. but not now.
Obviously not an exact-science, but Scheifele was 21 for the majority of the 2014-2015 season, where he put up 49 points. Good for fourth on a team who's highest producer put up 62.

Sam Bennett put up 26 points, good for 9th (despite not missing games like those directly behind him), on a team who had an 84 point scorer when he was 21.

Oh yeah, and when Scheifele was 20 he was a top six forward for the Winnipeg Jets. He didn't "barely stick in the NHL". He played every game that year...until he had an injury that sidelined him for the remainder of the season. He was fourth on his team with 34 points, on pace for 45. And this was after a slow start. From December 2013 onward he was killing it. 24 points in 32 games leading up to his injury...but yeah could barely stick in the NHL as a 20 year old.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:34 AM   #12444
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I'd confidently say he'd outperform Ferland.
Really selling Ferland short.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:46 AM   #12445
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And also the same coach who had Gaudreau score at over a point per game pace for the first time in his career, Monahan who set a career high in points despite playing a career low number of games and was injured for a quarter of them, Micheal Ferland who scored a career high 21 goals, Matthew Tkachuk who improved his point total despite playing 8 less games than the previous season, Mikael Backlund who finished 4th in Selke voting, Dougie Hamilton who scored 50 points one year and led all defenseman in goals the next year....

I think you get the point. Blaming the coach for Bennett is a cop out if you ask me. It's possible he turns it around this season, but nothing I've seen would lead me to believe that will be the case.
I know that a lot of folks do not appreciate the simplicity of having better results relative to the players playing against them especially compared to out-shooting them

In last year's Selke voting the worst +/- of anyone getting a vote was Claude Giroux who got a 4th place and a 5th place vote with his -15. Good for a tie for 38th place with that renowned shut-down centre Austin Matthews.

This season (that you were saying how well GG coached some players) Backlund was -21.

Since you are using the Selke voting as proof of Backlund's elite checking skills will your opinion change based on this season's vote?

Players that hopefully improve , bounce back with a new coach and system:

Brodie, Backlund and Bennett..... the killed B's ( under GG)

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Old 05-16-2018, 09:54 AM   #12446
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I'd confidently say he'd outperform Ferland.
No way. Ferland was on pace for 30+ goals just after Xmas. His play fell off near the end of the season when Monahan was playing through injuries.

Ferland is a finisher with a good shot. That is why he fits in well with that line. He gives Gaudreau another shooting option besides Monahan. Ferland's big knock is the same as Bennett which is inconsistency. The advantage though to Ferland is that he has played long stretches of being an offensive contributor unlike Bennett.

Bennett would play better than he has on the top line but doesn't have the shot and ability to finish like Ferland. I see no way he would confidently outperform.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:55 AM   #12447
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Itís great so many feel so confident about Bennett becoming a good player, but I just donít see any evidence to prove it. Also can we stop comparing him to elite players? Come on Marchand and Sheifele? He shouldnít be mentioned in the same sentence as those players and nothing points to him becoming even remotely close to those players as of yet
The point with mentioning them is that nothing pointed to them becoming the players they became either. Hindsight is 20/20 though.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:07 AM   #12448
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Watch Bennett in any game last year and then compare it the ones where he played on Gaudreau's wing towards the end of the season.

Now imagine a full season of that type of effort.

It was a night and day difference. To me at least.
I think we were starting to see what we had in Bennett and Jankowski in the last couple of games, where it was clear GG was a lame duck coach. The only heartening thing of those last games was to see the talent level ramp up when the shackles were off.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:07 AM   #12449
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I think there is a pretty big difference between confidence and hockey IQ.

For what the return would be, I'd rather the Flames show some patience. He is a prime example of lack of confidence
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:15 AM   #12450
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The point with mentioning them is that nothing pointed to them becoming the players they became either. Hindsight is 20/20 though.
Itís been pointed out both those players career trajectoryís where better then Bennettís.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:21 AM   #12451
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I think there is a pretty big difference between confidence and hockey IQ.

For what the return would be, I'd rather the Flames show some patience. He is a prime example of lack of confidence
Mostly confidence for Bennett but also lacking in hockey IQ a lot of times. Bad penalties, weak shots from low scoring areas, same toe drag move etc.

Only trade value is packaged in a deal to get a top 6 scorer or straight up for another young underachiever for a fresh start.

We'll see if Peters can change this.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:21 AM   #12452
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IMO JT Miller is probably a realistic expectation for what Bennett will become. My thought is that Bennett's floor is 40pts a year with potential to be a 55pt guy. Maybe not what we all wanted with the 4th overall pick but not a guy you toss in to a trade proposal as a sweetener.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:31 AM   #12453
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Itís great so many feel so confident about Bennett becoming a good player, but I just donít see any evidence to prove it. Also can we stop comparing him to elite players? Come on Marchand and Sheifele? He shouldnít be mentioned in the same sentence as those players and nothing points to him becoming even remotely close to those players as of yet.
That's the point though. People aren't comparing current Bennett (or even future Bennett) to Marchand or Scheifele, they're saying that at the same age that Bennett is now neither of those players were performing anywhere near the level they are now, as it wasn't certain what those players could become, but now look at them.

Nobody knows what he's going to be going forward and the above point is to counter those who state definitively that he's a bust at 21.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:32 AM   #12454
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In an effort to derail the tired Bennett argument loops, here is a speculation I saw elsewhere. (don't judge - hockey fix reading is slim pickings for the Flames right now)

Colorado has Ottawa's 1st and 3rd for the 2019 draft.
What if Colorado offer sheets Mark Stone to the tune of 8.1 million per.
If the Sens failed to match, then the Aves hand over their own 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, but still have Ottawa's 1st and 3rd. The evil part being, that 1st and 3rd are likely much improved picks now.

Thoughts?
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:35 AM   #12455
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Originally Posted by Yrebmi View Post
In an effort to derail the tired Bennett argument loops, here is a speculation I saw elsewhere. (don't judge - hockey fix reading is slim pickings for the Flames right now)

Colorado has Ottawa's 1st and 3rd for the 2019 draft.
What if Colorado offer sheets Mark Stone to the tune of 8.1 million per.
If the Sens failed to match, then the Aves hand over their own 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, but still have Ottawa's 1st and 3rd. The evil part being, that 1st and 3rd are likely much improved picks now.

Thoughts?
I like it, make them further regret the Duchene deal.
Cut throat but I'd have issues with paying 8.1 mil to Stone.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:36 AM   #12456
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Ottawa is a team looking to save money and on the cusp of a retool/rebuild. Someone offers sheets them for Stone at that cost? You take the pics. Ottawa is used to regret, they'll get over this.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:44 AM   #12457
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Itís been pointed out both those players career trajectoryís where better then Bennettís.
Both those players were given better linemates and opportunity as well. Calling a 21 year old 4th overall pick with great tools a bust already after being given crap for opportunity is ridiculous.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:47 AM   #12458
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I didn’t call him a bust.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:49 AM   #12459
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I'm not a big believer in handing more ice time and better players to play with to a young player without merit. They should earn that ice time based on on-ice performance.



Bad linemates or not, Bennett hasn't shown that. Good players can shine on their own.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:04 AM   #12460
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I'm not a big believer in handing more ice time and better players to play with to a young player without merit. They should earn that ice time based on on-ice performance.

Bad linemates or not, Bennett hasn't shown that. Good players can shine on their own.
I'd argue with you over whether or not Ferland "earned it". In fact, one could easily say that after Bennett's rookie season and Tkachuk's arrival - Tkachuk should have played with Backlund while Bennett was promoted to RW with Monahan and Gaudreau. Instead, Gulutzan and the Flames set him up to fail by moving him to centre and playing him with absolute rubbish for an entire season - and then they tried to do it AGAIN the following year after they foolishly put Jankowski back in the AHL for 10 games. I'm sorry, but good organizations just don't do this. Good organizations don't sign crap contracts with bad players like Brouwer and then staple them to the side of your young, promising players. No good team does that to promising prospects.

Young, good developing players don't carry lines by themselves. It doesn't happen. Good teams identify that developing players need good players to play with so that they can develop at the NHL level. Hartley (I don't like Hartley as a whole, and was 100% in support of firing him) at least understood this. Gulutzan did not, and for his part - Treliving absolutely failed this team by signing Brouwer to be that - Brouwer sucked before we gave him that contract, and he's sucked ever since.

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