Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 05-16-2018, 08:44 AM   #5721
Thunderball
#1 Goaltender
 
Thunderball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by meritmat View Post
If this was in Canada best interest they should have send in the army months ago for security.
Or froze all federal transfers and infrastructure payments to BC until they sent in the RCMP and police to secure the protest areas, pressed more criminal charges, and stopped acting like a vexatious litigant with all the nuisance references.
Thunderball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 08:49 AM   #5722
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slava View Post
The part I don’t get about the government waiting too Kong is that they had six weeks (roughly?) to deal with the May 31 deadline. They didn’t set that deadline, but once that comes into play, it’s a short time horizon. And prior to that, BC said they were done stalling and weren’t going to stand in the way, which was the result of the wine ban that we rescinded. Sonia the message that even though we thought things were going ahead and on track that they should have referred to the Supreme Court? That seems like pure hindsight.

Kinder Morgan set the deadline because this government had ignored the file since the Horgan government came on board and started destabilizing the situation. The Liberals can act like this is a deadline fault of Kinder, but realistically the Trudeau government chose to ignore the problem and sing "LA La LA" with their hands over their ears.


Realistically, it does sound like Kinder isn't playing ball anymore, and they're going to pull the chute on this whole thing, and then file a NAFTA lawsuit against BC and the Federal Government for a couple of Billion dollars.



So even if they open it up to bidding for another company, they're going to miss this construction season. Then the Federal Government will accept bids but keep this thing killed until the next election is over so next years construction season is going to be gone, and then the government will decide to put the bid back through the new regulatory paces.


I'm betting we're still debating this 10 years from now.
__________________
Someone once asked me if I was scared of the storm
I am the Storm
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2018, 08:50 AM   #5723
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
Or froze all federal transfers and infrastructure payments to BC until they sent in the RCMP and police to secure the protest areas, pressed more criminal charges, and stopped acting like a vexatious litigant with all the nuisance references.

Nope, that's not cool yo, think of the photo ops lost, of Horgan with the smug look on his face as he received the 4 billion dollar check.


Not sending the 4 bill would have put seats at risk.
__________________
Someone once asked me if I was scared of the storm
I am the Storm
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2018, 08:51 AM   #5724
Thunderball
#1 Goaltender
 
Thunderball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
Kinder Morgan set the deadline because this government had ignored the file since the Horgan government came on board and started destabilizing the situation. The Liberals can act like this is a deadline fault of Kinder, but realistically the Trudeau government chose to ignore the problem and sing "LA La LA" with their hands over their ears.


Realistically, it does sound like Kinder isn't playing ball anymore, and they're going to pull the chute on this whole thing, and then file a NAFTA lawsuit against BC and the Federal Government for a couple of Billion dollars.



So even if they open it up to bidding for another company, they're going to miss this construction season. Then the Federal Government will accept bids but keep this thing killed until the next election is over so next years construction season is going to be gone, and then the government will decide to put the bid back through the new regulatory paces.


I'm betting we're still debating this 10 years from now.
Unless we have a new government in 2019 somehow, I wouldn't take that bet. I think you're 100% correct.
Thunderball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 08:54 AM   #5725
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by meritmat View Post
If this was in Canada best interest they should have send in the army months ago for security.

They're not sending the army in, ever.


They're not going to send the RCMP in to bash skulls and hit them with water cannons ever


They're not going to push the protesters away from their camps, and enforce the pipeline construction sights with dogs or mine fields, or heat sensors and low light cameras manned by serious looking dudes in black body armor and shielded faces.


You know what they're going to do . . . nothing.


If construction happens, they'll be acts of sabotage and vandalism and the government will write a check to whatever company is doing it in order to rebuild it.


But anyone expecting the rule of law to be applied to one of the Liberals biggest voting blocks is fooling themselves.
__________________
Someone once asked me if I was scared of the storm
I am the Storm
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 08:56 AM   #5726
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default

Honestly after that shyte show of a press conference, and going into the long weekend. Notley should reactivate the wine ban, and reduce but not turn off the flow of fuels to BC.


I would hope that on Tuesday when BC's tourism industry does their numbers that they'll wonder where all the money from Alberta tourists went?
__________________
Someone once asked me if I was scared of the storm
I am the Storm
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 08:59 AM   #5727
DiracSpike
Powerplay Quarterback
 
DiracSpike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: BELTLINE
Exp:
Default

I like Notley's actions so far on this file and my opinion of her has gone up a lot. she's been tough on her fellow NDP premier which must've been difficult but now the time has come to dig deep and enact this restriction. Now or never.
DiracSpike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 09:03 AM   #5728
llwhiteoutll
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
So even if they open it up to bidding for another company, they're going to miss this construction season. Then the Federal Government will accept bids but keep this thing killed until the next election is over so next years construction season is going to be gone, and then the government will decide to put the bid back through the new regulatory paces.


I'm betting we're still debating this 10 years from now.
Missing prime construction season this year or next is meaningless. If KM pulls the plug, there will never be a shovel in the ground under this government.

If KM stops all work and abandons the project, the entire process is reset even further from the point from where KM started. KM has the existing ROW, the engineering being done and landowner agreements. Any new proponent would have to start by going to market to find shippers and then find, and get approval, for a ROW. The there is all the environmental work, NEB applications/hearings, engineering, procurement.

This was pretty much the perfect way for this to play out for the Liberals. Delay until KM pulls the plug, then can now blame KM for setting an unreasonable timeline and tell everyone else that they tried incredibly hard to push it through.

They'll hold up their willingness to indemnify a company from losses as proof of this, knowing full well they will never have to pay a single penny because no one will put the bid forward. And if they do, the chances of it passing the new regulatory process are not too good.

The two biggest problems this creates for Canada is the fact that we have basically told the world that a federal approval means nothing and that the federal government is unable and unwilling to enforce matters of federal jurisdiction.

All the Liberals will accomplish is killing even more investment (foreign and domestic) and getting themselves tied up in court by the provinces over things that the provinces don't like and shouldn't have control over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiracSpike View Post
I like Notley's actions so far on this file and my opinion of her has gone up a lot. she's been tough on her fellow NDP premier which must've been difficult but now the time has come to dig deep and enact this restriction. Now or never.
Pretty much. Enacting the permitting legislation is the only thing that will allow the NDP to save some face at this point.

But even then, reducing the flow and driving BC prices through the roof won't solve KM's issues. All it is about is revenge and making BC hurt as much as they have caused the rest of the country to hurt, which I'm sure many people would be fine with. If the pipeline is dead, we don't need the support of the BC public anymore.

Last edited by llwhiteoutll; 05-16-2018 at 09:08 AM.
llwhiteoutll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 09:08 AM   #5729
meritmat
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll View Post
Missing prime construction season this year or next is meaningless. If KM pulls the plug, there will never be a shovel in the ground under this government.

If KM stops all work and abandons the project, the entire process is reset even further from the point from where KM started. KM has the existing ROW, the engineering being done and landowner agreements. Any new proponent would have to start by going to market to find shippers and then find, and get approval, for a ROW. The there is all the environmental work, NEB applications/hearings, engineering, procurement.

This was pretty much the perfect way for this to play out for the Liberals. Delay until KM pulls the plug, then can now blame KM for setting an unreasonable timeline and tell everyone else that they tried incredibly hard to push it through.

They'll hold up their willingness to indemnify a company from losses as proof of this, knowing full well they will never have to pay a single penny because no one will put the bid forward. And if they do, the chances of it passing the new regulatory process are not too good.

The two biggest problems this creates for Canada is the fact that we have basically told the world that a federal approval means nothing and that the federal government is unable and unwilling to enforce matters of federal jurisdiction.

All the Liberals will accomplish is killing even more investment (foreign and domestic) and getting themselves tied up in court by the provinces over things that the provinces don't like and shouldn't have control over.
And June first Alberta should scrap the carbon tax
meritmat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 09:09 AM   #5730
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default






__________________
Someone once asked me if I was scared of the storm
I am the Storm
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 09:11 AM   #5731
prarieboy
Late Bloomer
 
prarieboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Campo De Golf
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by meritmat View Post
If this was in Canada best interest they should have send in the army months ago for security.
Indeed.
prarieboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 09:23 AM   #5732
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll View Post
Missing prime construction season this year or next is meaningless. If KM pulls the plug, there will never be a shovel in the ground under this government.

If KM stops all work and abandons the project, the entire process is reset even further from the point from where KM started. KM has the existing ROW, the engineering being done and landowner agreements. Any new proponent would have to start by going to market to find shippers and then find, and get approval, for a ROW. The there is all the environmental work, NEB applications/hearings, engineering, procurement.

This was pretty much the perfect way for this to play out for the Liberals. Delay until KM pulls the plug, then can now blame KM for setting an unreasonable timeline and tell everyone else that they tried incredibly hard to push it through.

They'll hold up their willingness to indemnify a company from losses as proof of this, knowing full well they will never have to pay a single penny because no one will put the bid forward. And if they do, the chances of it passing the new regulatory process are not too good.

The two biggest problems this creates for Canada is the fact that we have basically told the world that a federal approval means nothing and that the federal government is unable and unwilling to enforce matters of federal jurisdiction.

All the Liberals will accomplish is killing even more investment (foreign and domestic) and getting themselves tied up in court by the provinces over things that the provinces don't like and shouldn't have control over.

I was you know trying to be optimistic about the whole thing. Canada is pretty much closed for business if Kinder pulls. Nobody is going to want to go through the ridiculous regulatory process that includes down stream effects and gender effects and up stream effects, unless you do business in Quebec, in that case the government doesn't care.


Every business with a buck to invest in energy is looking at a country that is now firmly in the control of fringe groups and activists that frighten the federal government and saying "Nope, waste of time". They're looking at a government that won't enforce its own laws or its own agreements.



If Kinder goes away, what we're going to start seeing in this province is a drain out. the big players like Husky and the others are already saying, we're not investing here, we're investing in the States and in China and everywhere else, but here. go back and look at those quarterly update meetings and their CEO statements.



And even if we somehow bounce this government the damage is done.


Also if Kinder pulls, the whole social license thing in exchange for a carbon tax becomes a massive lie. Now its a massive carbon tax + government bailout. Its actually pretty ridiculous.


And Trudeau has to know that his government is just supremely f'd. Not only because if Kinder goes, the lawsuits happen, and under the NAFTA agreement it clears the way for Kinder to file a multi-billion dollar lawsuit against the Federal and BC government.


On top of that, by the time the dust settles on this one, if Kinder pulls, you are going to have a really angry and resentful province, that won't care about public sentiment in BC, they'll want something to happen to BC and they'll want a government that will do it. So the threads of the Confederation break some more. Notley's going to be cornered into turning down the gas and other stuff by the end of next week, but its way to late, that should have happened on the day that Kinder imposed their deadline.



As well, and this is what Trudeau and McKenna know, after the next couple of elections, you'll have a hostile government killing the Carbon Tax in Ontario, A government in Manitoba that's going to refuse to raise their price on Carbon to $50 as mandated by the Feds. A province in Saskatchewan that's planning a court action against the Feds on Carbon Tax, and a resentful Alberta with a UCP government with a mandate to kill the carbon tax in power.


I've said it before. The best thing that Trudeau could do right now. offer to reopen the Constitution and renegotiate Provincial Powers. I think its the only way to save this country, because right now, its not working.











Quote:
Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll View Post
Pretty much. Enacting the permitting legislation is the only thing that will allow the NDP to save some face at this point.

But even then, reducing the flow and driving BC prices through the roof won't solve KM's issues. All it is about is revenge and making BC hurt as much as they have caused the rest of the country to hurt, which I'm sure many people would be fine with. If the pipeline is dead, we don't need the support of the BC public anymore.

With two weeks left to Kinder's decision, to me its too late to turn off the taps. The BC government will hunker down and push through the deadline, and people will rally to the government in BC for standing up to the Feds and those dirty evil Albertans.


I'm all for having Notley doing a press conference form her desk holding her hand over a red button and telling BC that if Kinder says No this hand goes down and doesn't go back up.
__________________
Someone once asked me if I was scared of the storm
I am the Storm
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2018, 09:32 AM   #5733
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by meritmat View Post
If this was in Canada best interest they should have send in the army months ago for security.

I really don't want the Army enforcing civil law, its distasteful to me, and the Army aren't police officers. What's their rule of engagement? Are we arming them so if people encroach they're getting threatened?


To me a army in a democratic society is poorly equip to deal with civilians in this manner.


You know what I think we need to be creative.


Set up a check point that the protesters have to go through.


Run their identification


1) If they're on unemployment inform them that they will be immediately removed from receiving unemployment benefits and the government will be suing them to receiver any money's that they've received.


2) If they are foreign and here on things like vacation, they will be escorted to those buses and taken to the airport or border, and will be permanently banned from re-entering Canada


3) As part of any future regulatory process, all environmental groups that want to testify in hearings or consult will have to agree to an audit of their funding and if they receive money from groups like Tides or Tides US or Rockefeller for example. They will be banned from any hearings and will lose their tax free status. The same applies for any lobby group in any industry that receives foreign funding.


4) Any Protester camps will have to pay a million dollar deposit to be allowed to exist because we know we're going to have to clean up after you.


But I don't want the army involved. We came close in the Oka crisis to that thing spiraling out of control.
__________________
Someone once asked me if I was scared of the storm
I am the Storm
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2018, 09:56 AM   #5734
OldDutch
First Line Centre
 
OldDutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North of the River, South of the Bluff
Exp:
Default

This announcement was awful. KM now has full excuse to pull the plug, as they didn’t ask for indemnity, they asked for a clear path forward.

Looks like Liberals seem optimistic someone else will jump in and build this. Which is undue risky and totally unnecessary.

Just a totally incompetent response given the stakes. It’s like hiring a building company to build you house, them messing up and saying “well we won’t charge you a penny more until we finally build it” Sorry who gives a rip, You need a place to live now!

I was always optimistic that the stakes would be so high on so many fronts that the Liberals hand would be forced. I thought wrong. This was a tepid endorsement. A sad day for this country, especially with the hypocite bafoon Suzuki flying in soon to get his degree.
OldDutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 09:56 AM   #5735
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default

Coverage about yesterdays ATCO General Meeting


http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...and-yet-so-far


Quote:
Heartbreaking.”

It’s a word Nancy Southern used twice to describe the business climate in Canada — and particularly Alberta — that is scaring away capital investment to friendlier business locales, including the United States.


“How heartbreaking it is to see our wonderful resource-laden province so constrained by regulatory policy and politics of various dispositions,” Southern told ATCO’s annual general meeting at the Fairmont Palliser hotel on Tuesday morning during her opening remarks.


“Over the past year the people of your company have significantly broadened our global horizon, because we do see the need for diversification and we’ve done so in preparation that will launch a bold new ATCO, bringing our existing and new products to places around the world,” Southern told the hundreds of people in the Crystal ballroom.



Quote:
Siegfried Kiefer, president and chief strategy officer of the Alberta-built company, laid out a plethora of exciting new initiatives — including a promising hydrogen power project in Australia and work with Canadian Indigenous communities — but also a litany of roadblocks to Canadian growth constantly being thrown up by our elected officials.


“Increasingly, these opportunities for growth are surfacing abroad in jurisdictions where we’ve already established a strategic foothold,” said Kiefer.
Blame Ottawa and blame the province.


Kiefer showed several disturbing slides showing how governments in Canada “are busy” bringing in “multiple and compounding policies and regulations” that are “layering considerable costs on businesses and individuals alike, undermining the confidence of investors, eroding the attractiveness of our industries and weakening the confidence of the public.”

Quote:
Kiefer also showed the clear decline in foreign direct investment in Canada.
“The latest data from Statistics Canada shows foreign direct investment in the country dropped to $31.4 billion last year, compared to $49.4 billion the year before, which was a decline from 2015,” added Kiefer.


According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, Canada “has fallen from being in the top five in terms of length of time it takes to obtain a permit and licence, to being 34th out of 35 countries in the duration of time for review of these projects,” added Kiefer.


“The delay of those projects is almost as good as a cancellation when you think about where capital will flow, to those jurisdictions where you can in a reasonable period of time invest your money and put it to work.”

Quote:
Responding to a question, Southern said: “I would just add that layered on top of the changing federal regulations we are facing extraordinary change to regulations and policy in Alberta.”


Citing a study, Southern added that “our competitive edge is slipping away from us. You saw that office structure in Colorado. We’re building that in Pocatello, Idaho, because we’re not competitive building it in Alberta anymore and that breaks my heart, and it’s layer upon layer. It’s increasing regulatory requirement, it’s compliance, new labour laws, it’s taxes — carbon tax,” said Southern.


“The country needs good leadership. We need courageous and visionary leadership,” said Southern.
__________________
Someone once asked me if I was scared of the storm
I am the Storm
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 10:01 AM   #5736
Johnny Makarov
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Exp:
Default

All this against the Liberals and then Harper sticks his head out again. I guess the Cons don't really want to win the next election. Guess he still has an itch for power.

http://nationalpost.com/news/politic...harpers-return

Quote:
At the same time, Harper has seemed to be “popping his head out of the gopher hole” as long-time Liberal Susan Smith, co-founder of Bluesky Strategy Group, describes his re-emergence.

Harper’s remarks to the Stanford Graduate School of Business in Stanford, Calif., which have been posted on YouTube, was the subject of a Liberal party fundraising blast Monday entitled: “Stephen Harper as leader?”

“Andrew Scheer may be the Conservative leader today, but it’s still Stephen Harper’s party,” the email said.
Johnny Makarov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 10:05 AM   #5737
transplant99
Fearmongerer
 
transplant99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Default

Lol
__________________
Quote:
Tkachuk is more like Marchand than the other guys though. He's really ****ing good. He's just a total butthole.
Unknown Kings fan
transplant99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 10:08 AM   #5738
DiracSpike
Powerplay Quarterback
 
DiracSpike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: BELTLINE
Exp:
Default

He specifically said in that speech that he could've still been leader if he wanted to but he felt that the party needed to move on without him. It's hilarious the spectre that Harper has become for leftists they're obsessed with him. Sure would be nice to still have leadership now though, especially in regards to KM.
DiracSpike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 10:08 AM   #5739
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

So he gave a speech at a university in the States and the Liberals want to cast that as him continuing to exert influence over the party? Are the Democrats still Bill Clinton's party as long as he continues to make public appearances? That seems like a pretty huge stretch.

It also elevates Scheer - gives the impression that the Liberals need a different enemy than the one on offer. "We don't want to deal with this guy; let's see if we can make it about the guy who's been out of office for years".
__________________
If you were given the option to pay 45 cents to predict the outcome of a coin flip, and if correct in your prediction you win a dollar, you may lose 45 cents on the first try. You may even lose 90 cents after the second try. But if you keep betting, you'll end up ahead in the long term. This is the value of analytics. They do not describe destiny, only the likeliest result.

Last edited by CorsiHockeyLeague; 05-16-2018 at 10:11 AM.
CorsiHockeyLeague is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 10:14 AM   #5740
Johnny Makarov
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
So he gave a speech at a university in the States and the Liberals want to cast that as him continuing to exert influence over the party? Are the Democrats still Bill Clinton's party as long as he continues to make public appearances? That seems like a pretty huge stretch.

It also elevates Scheer - gives the impression that the Liberals need a different enemy than the one on offer. "We don't want to deal with this guy; let's see if we can make it about the guy who's been out of office for years".
Why are you referencing Bill Clinton and not Obama? Did Harper not run in the last election?

And if he really wanted to stay out of the spotlight why would he stupidly put his name to that NY Times ad?

I want Trudeau gone if the pipeline doesn't get built, but how will he lose? If the pipeline doesn't get built will Ontario, Quebec or the maritimes care? Get rid of Scheer and put a more reasonable and qualified candidate out there. We all know the Liberal attack ads will be coming for Harper with a Smile..
Johnny Makarov is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:54 AM.

Calgary Flames
2017-18




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016