[News] With the 26th OA pick, the Flames select LW Jakob Pelletier

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

With work. Point was a bad skater when drafted. Is he now?

(I know Tkachuk has taken skating lessons in the summer but who knows how hard he’s worked on it personally).

Point always had speed, just his mechanics weren't NHL quality. Lots of guys improve their skating at an NHL level, strength, stride, balance, maybe acceleration. But I just don't believe the speed is something you can teach. Is why I pointed out the two guys on our team.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

He isn't a bad skater at all.

All I said was that he was at an average NHLer top speed. He doesn't have a choppy stride or anything it's just that he probably isn't going to have Miles Wood type top speed.

When all is said and done he will probably end up with around the same top speed as Mangaipane. His skating doesn't worry me at all. Mangipane also was known for somewhat of an average top speed when was younger but this never held him back.

Sorry if I made anyone worry or anything that wasn't the goal here. I just tried to temper some expectations when it came to his speed. He is without a doubt going to be a very effective NHL forward.

I love Mangiapane but skating is not his strength and it's a stretch to even describe him as an average skater. I'll go with what the scouts and my eyes say about Pelletier's skating. He reminds me more of Dube than Mangiapane as a skater.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Point always had speed, just his mechanics weren't NHL quality. Lots of guys improve their skating at an NHL level, strength, stride, balance, maybe acceleration. But I just don't believe the speed is something you can teach. Is why I pointed out the two guys on our team.

Point was noted as a bad skater in every scouting report - it’s why he was drafted where he was. He notoriously worked very hard at improving. And speed has a lot to do with mechanics.

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

I love Mangiapane but skating is not his strength and it's a stretch to even describe him as an average skater. I'll go with what the scouts and my eyes say about Pelletier's skating. He reminds me more of Dube than Mangiapane as a skater.

Allllrighty then buster.

Scouts aren't always right.. how many scouts compared Monny to Toews in terms of his playing style.

I don't want to start a debate or anything but just note that in highlights the players you are often seeing are not NHL caliber skaters. I never said he was slow but average for an NHLer.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Monahan and Tkachuk say hi.

Draisaitl says hi from Edmonton

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Draisaitl says hi from Edmonton

He doesn't really have blazing speed. He's fast enough.

I think its true that a player can't go from below average or average to speedster at the NHL level.

Look at a guy like Gagner. His dad talked about trying to turn him into a speedy turtle. Former NHL dad with all the resources in the world, and a good work ethic, but the kid couldn't become an above average skater.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

He doesn't really have blazing speed. He's fast enough.

I think its true that a player can't go from below average or average to speedster at the NHL level.

Look at a guy like Gagner. His dad talked about trying to turn him into a speedy turtle. Former NHL dad with all the resources in the world, and a good work ethic, but the kid couldn't become an above average skater.

Draisaitl's a whole lot better skater now then he was when drafted.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Draisaitl's a whole lot better skater now then he was when drafted.

I think most of it is that he looked slow and behind the play in his first NHL stint because he didn't move his feet enough.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Point was noted as a bad skater in every scouting report - it’s why he was drafted where he was. He notoriously worked very hard at improving. And speed has a lot to do with mechanics.

This is false. He was drafted where he was because of his size. Some scouting reports actually identified he was a high motor quick player.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I think most of it is that he looked slow and behind the play in his first NHL stint because he didn't move his feet enough.

Pre draft scouting reports said he needed to work on his leg strength and skating, clearly he did that.

Draisaitl wasn't technique bad he just needed work, guys like Tkachuk are technically bad, while not as slow as they look they'll never will be even close to fast. when I see Pelletier skate I see above an average skater who with work can only get better and faster.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

This is false. He was drafted where he was because of his size. Some scouting reports actually identified he was a high motor quick player.

Also with a high IQ, Pelletier checks the same boxes that Point did, same size, motor,skating and hockey sense, he even played center. maybe the Flames took him out of guilt from the epic failure of drafting a few bums instead of Point

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

This is false. He was drafted where he was because of his size. Some scouting reports actually identified he was a high motor quick player.

I think you are mistaken. Yes, size was a factor but Gio is also right. Skating was a big question mark. Burke has talked publicly about this.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I think you are mistaken. Yes, size was a factor but Gio is also right. Skating was a big question mark. Burke has talked publicly about this.

Burke is an idiot when it comes to players under 6'0, he's probably the only reason they didn't draft him.

Pre draft report:

“Point is a very good skater. He has good top end speed, very good acceleration and a quick first step. His agility and edgework are both very good, and his balance and strength on the puck is surprising for a player his size. He skates with a low centre of gravity and is very tough to take off the puck when he has it, and he can be gritty and win board battles due to this good balance. He plays bigger than his size as a result, throwing hits and being gritty in all three zones.”

This is why Burke didn't want him.

"It’s an absolute shame that Point’s stature – 5’9″ and 160 pounds – will reduce him from being an absolute slam-dunk first round selection into being a really smart depth move a team makes in the second or third round. His size will make it tougher to translate his game to the NHL level, and he’ll need to add some muscle to insulate himself against playing a rough-and-tumble game against the giants in the NHL."

I would bet large money the Flames scouts wanted him but Burke didn't.

[GioforPM]

I can show you a half dozen scouting reports that say Point’s skating was a concern and a bunch of stories that say he was drafted low because of his skating (and yes, his size but small and fast players can be drafted higher). But it seems like it’s impossible to satisfy anyone past the narrative that skating (including speed) can’t be improved despite a whole bunch of examples.

[GioforPM]

“My first impression of Brayden was he struggled to skate,” said Cooper. “He had the hockey sense, the competitiveness, all the hockey player traits you need. Except, shockingly enough, he didn’t have the speed he has now.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/edmonton...aa5462bfb/amp/

[GioforPM]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1296840582678159360

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Burke is an idiot when it comes to players under 6'0, he's probably the only reason they didn't draft him.

Pre draft report:

“Point is a very good skater. He has good top end speed, very good acceleration and a quick first step. His agility and edgework are both very good, and his balance and strength on the puck is surprising for a player his size. He skates with a low centre of gravity and is very tough to take off the puck when he has it, and he can be gritty and win board battles due to this good balance. He plays bigger than his size as a result, throwing hits and being gritty in all three zones.”

This is why Burke didn't want him.

"It’s an absolute shame that Point’s stature – 5’9″ and 160 pounds – will reduce him from being an absolute slam-dunk first round selection into being a really smart depth move a team makes in the second or third round. His size will make it tougher to translate his game to the NHL level, and he’ll need to add some muscle to insulate himself against playing a rough-and-tumble game against the giants in the NHL."

Hard to take the rest of your post seriously if you open with calling someone an idiot. But let’s say he is, despite his decades long career in pro and international hockey, Stanley cup ring, and Harvard law degree, what does that say about the the 29 other GM’s who passed on him? Even Tampa had picked three times before they picked Point.

My advice, cool it on the idiot talk. It doesn’t help your argument.

[genetic_phreek]

What narrative? I just pointed out two guys that we clearly watched grow within our organization that were identified as skaters that needed improvement and to date, are still not very good skaters hence to why I feel you can't really improve.

I can admit that I didn't watch Point, Draisatl, Horvat, etc from day 1 to see how poor their skating was to now, but I see them as pretty good skaters today, where as Monahan and Tkachuk I've watched from day 1 and they still skate with cement on their feet.

[Street Pharmacist]

So. How's Pelletier doing?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

“My first impression of Brayden was he struggled to skate,” said Cooper. “He had the hockey sense, the competitiveness, all the hockey player traits you need. Except, shockingly enough, he didn’t have the speed he has now.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/edmonton...aa5462bfb/amp/

Sorry but Matheson and the Edmonton Journal are not scouting reports, they are just no good.

Every and I mean every scouting report mentions is skating as a positive.

Brayden Point is a fast-skating and elusive forward who has proven that he can put the puck in the net on a consistent basis.

Point is a very good skater. He has good top end speed, very good acceleration and a quick first step. His agility and edgework are both very good

Try again!

Fun fact, Steve Yzerman gave up a pick to move one spot to get Point