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Old 06-10-2019, 01:13 PM   #101
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Is the current state of officiating worse than it has been historically? I’d say no.
Hard to say, but I'm inclined to agree.

It's just modern TV technology has exposed what an absolute mess it has always been.

It really helps you understand why the players are still to some extent policing each other.
(Also the fact that this is a thing to some extent suggests that hockey officiating is literally the worst.)

Nobody has faith in the refs. Not even the refs. Which I think is one reason the refs don't just call what they see.

Many rules currently have no line or standard, no way to "call it like you see it". It's not how the rules work because they have NEVER been called like that.

Last edited by Itse; 06-10-2019 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:32 PM   #102
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This is why it's hard to attract new fans to hockey and make it a world wide game. If you haven't watched hockey since birth you won't get it.
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:04 PM   #103
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The problem with video replay - which is an inevitabiilty for potential major penalties at this point - is that history informs us that things will only get worse. We added coach's challenges to defend against egregious mistakes. The reality is that it is instead used for hail mary challenges and in the case of goalie interference, there is literally nothing approaching a consistent standard. It will be the same with penalty reviews. We will all be bitching about how slow, confusing and pointless penalty reviews are by game 40.
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:17 PM   #104
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The problem with video replay - which is an inevitabiilty for potential major penalties at this point - is that history informs us that things will only get worse. We added coach's challenges to defend against egregious mistakes. The reality is that it is instead used for hail mary challenges and in the case of goalie interference, there is literally nothing approaching a consistent standard. It will be the same with penalty reviews. We will all be bitching about how slow, confusing and pointless penalty reviews are by game 40.
But they saw the issues presented by the offside replays and introduced a rule to cut back on those calls where people were splitting an atom to determine if the skate blade was down and the number of offside challenges went down because of the threat of taking a penalty for a call that may not go your way suddenly wasn't worth it.

If someone wants to challenge a call then do the same thing. If you're sure the refs missed the call then make the challenge and risk the penalty. If it looks like a 50/50 thing then most coaches aren't going to risk going down a man (or maybe 2 men if they're challenging a call against their team).

I think the current system sucks and officiating isn't consistent. But no change to the system is going to go smoothly and without introducing new issues. However, I think the league can adapt to the realities of the game as it changes and address potential problems as they come up.
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:51 PM   #105
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Get rid of the entire challenge system and keep it simple by having each scoring play reviewed to assist the refs. 99% of the time they get the call right, it is that 1% is why the NHL got into the challenge/review problem. The war room already looks at the goals, why would it be so hard to get rid of all the challenges and have the war room there to help out an official for the 2 times a year there is a glove pass or a player is 5 feet offside and it is missed and the resulting play leads to a goal.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:47 PM   #106
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But they saw the issues presented by the offside replays and introduced a rule to cut back on those calls where people were splitting an atom to determine if the skate blade was down and the number of offside challenges went down because of the threat of taking a penalty for a call that may not go your way suddenly wasn't worth it.

If someone wants to challenge a call then do the same thing. If you're sure the refs missed the call then make the challenge and risk the penalty. If it looks like a 50/50 thing then most coaches aren't going to risk going down a man (or maybe 2 men if they're challenging a call against their team).

I think the current system sucks and officiating isn't consistent. But no change to the system is going to go smoothly and without introducing new issues. However, I think the league can adapt to the realities of the game as it changes and address potential problems as they come up.
You can't really do that because of the lack of objective standards. The offside rule is at least black and white. Many penalty rules are intentionally subjective.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:57 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14 View Post
The problem with video replay - which is an inevitabiilty for potential major penalties at this point - is that history informs us that things will only get worse. We added coach's challenges to defend against egregious mistakes. The reality is that it is instead used for hail mary challenges and in the case of goalie interference, there is literally nothing approaching a consistent standard. It will be the same with penalty reviews. We will all be bitching about how slow, confusing and pointless penalty reviews are by game 40.
Pretty much this. Wait until the NFL season gets in full swing as I anticipate a lot of complaining by fans and media. They brought that PI challenge in because of an egregious mistake in the playoffs but we know that coaches will challenge some ticky tack contact and it's going to take time and lots of different replay angles to come to a determination that may still end up making more people unhappy than if they didn't have replay and just stayed with the call on the field.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:07 PM   #108
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What about just putting a third ref upstairs and giving him full access to all the angles and pause/rewind functionality that the broadcast team has? Like give him a room with a big screen and the ability to have someone in the truck replay things from different angles. Give him a headset that switches between the guy in the truck and the refs on the ice. Then take away all team challenges, with the understanding that everything is being replayed upstairs by a third ref who can not only call things down that the refs miss, but will also be used in conjunction with the refs on the ice to get their calls right too.

It's not about someone upstairs questioning on-ice calls, and/or overriding on-ice officials. It's about the people reffing the game adding an incredibly useful tool to their team and working together to get it right.

Examples:
On-ice ref: Road #5 is down; I didn't see it.
Upstairs: Clean hit.

Linesman: Close zone entry.
Upstairs: Offside.
Linesman: *blows whistle*
(even if it's 5-10 seconds late, it's still better than a goal followed by a 5 min coach's challenge and then the goal called back)

Upstairs: Trip by Home #63
On-ice ref: *puts up arm, waits for home team to touch the puck, blows whistle, goes to the box to watch the play while talking to upstairs, calls the penalty*

Ref: Did that puck go in?
Upstairs: No goal

Ref: *blows whistle but doesn't signal a goal*
Ref: Puck in, looked like a high stick
Ref: *goes to center ice*
Upstairs: Stick high
Ref: *signals no goal*

Upstairs: Puck in. Good goal for Calgary
Ref: *blows whistle*
Ref: *watches replay while communicating with upstairs*
Ref: *goes to center ice and signals good goal*
Deputy Commissioner: *awards Conn Smythe to Jarome Iginla*
Commissioner: *awards Stanley Cup to Calgary Flames*
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:35 AM   #109
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What about just putting a third ref upstairs and giving him full access to all the angles and pause/rewind functionality that the broadcast team has? Like give him a room with a big screen and the ability to have someone in the truck replay things from different angles. Give him a headset that switches between the guy in the truck and the refs on the ice. Then take away all team challenges, with the understanding that everything is being replayed upstairs by a third ref who can not only call things down that the refs miss, but will also be used in conjunction with the refs on the ice to get their calls right too.

It's not about someone upstairs questioning on-ice calls, and/or overriding on-ice officials. It's about the people reffing the game adding an incredibly useful tool to their team and working together to get it right.

Examples:
On-ice ref: Road #5 is down; I didn't see it.
Upstairs: Clean hit.

Linesman: Close zone entry.
Upstairs: Offside.
Linesman: *blows whistle*
(even if it's 5-10 seconds late, it's still better than a goal followed by a 5 min coach's challenge and then the goal called back)

Upstairs: Trip by Home #63
On-ice ref: *puts up arm, waits for home team to touch the puck, blows whistle, goes to the box to watch the play while talking to upstairs, calls the penalty*

Ref: Did that puck go in?
Upstairs: No goal

Ref: *blows whistle but doesn't signal a goal*
Ref: Puck in, looked like a high stick
Ref: *goes to center ice*
Upstairs: Stick high
Ref: *signals no goal*

Upstairs: Puck in. Good goal for Calgary
Ref: *blows whistle*
Ref: *watches replay while communicating with upstairs*
Ref: *goes to center ice and signals good goal*
Deputy Commissioner: *awards Conn Smythe to Jarome Iginla*
Commissioner: *awards Stanley Cup to Calgary Flames*
Agreed. It wouldn't have to be a challenge system. How many times have even analysts noticed errors before the puck is dropped after the penalty (or missed penalty)?

All you would need is an official watching the game from the press box wearing a headset who can tell the refs that their call on the ice is incorrect or that they missed something.

It's not the WWE. Rules should be rules and it shouldn't be a matter of whether it only counts if the on-ice ref sees it. The technology exists, I don't see why it shouldn't be used more.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:20 PM   #110
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Without question, one of the biggest stories from this year's playoffs has been the officiating. The Blues just won what could be considered a ref-assisted SC championship, but that's far from the only controversy along the way. The league needs to make it a top priority to take a long hard look at the way officials make calls in the playoffs. The status quo is really hurting the game imo.
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:24 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by FanIn80 View Post
What about just putting a third ref upstairs and giving him full access to all the angles and pause/rewind functionality that the broadcast team has? Like give him a room with a big screen and the ability to have someone in the truck replay things from different angles. Give him a headset that switches between the guy in the truck and the refs on the ice. Then take away all team challenges, with the understanding that everything is being replayed upstairs by a third ref who can not only call things down that the refs miss, but will also be used in conjunction with the refs on the ice to get their calls right too.

It's not about someone upstairs questioning on-ice calls, and/or overriding on-ice officials. It's about the people reffing the game adding an incredibly useful tool to their team and working together to get it right.

Examples:
On-ice ref: Road #5 is down; I didn't see it.
Upstairs: Clean hit. ...

Upstairs: Puck in. Good goal for Calgary
Ref: *blows whistle*
Ref: *watches replay while communicating with upstairs*
Ref: *goes to center ice and signals good goal*
Deputy Commissioner: *awards Conn Smythe to Jarome Iginla*
Commissioner: *awards Stanley Cup to Calgary Flames*

Great endearing finish. Yet I do agree with the third ref in the stands approach. This within the confines of their own media centre is a great solution. Great gig for retired minor leaguers and such. Yet I think it’s effective for the scenarios you stated. What would it cost the league ? 16 more jobs roughly? 1 for each potential game ina given night? 16 x 100k. 1.6 mi? Not that much considering how it could alter the game in such a net positive for a multi billion dollar league. It was in.
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:18 AM   #112
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Upstairs: Puck in. Good goal for Calgary
Ref: *blows whistle*
Ref: *watches replay while communicating with upstairs*
Ref: *goes to center ice and signals good goal*
Deputy Commissioner: *awards Conn Smythe to Jarome
Crowd: * boos commissioner
Commissioner: *awards Stanley Cup to Calgary Flames*
Excellent

One minor change, that is now a tradition
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