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Old 03-04-2019, 02:40 PM   #41
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Old 03-04-2019, 02:41 PM   #42
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In the interest of fairness:





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Old 03-04-2019, 02:53 PM   #43
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In the interest of fairness:





abhorrent and disgusting.
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Old 03-04-2019, 03:30 PM   #44
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They called no goal and the siren went off immediately after which was Toronto calling them to let them know what was missed.

This, amidst everyone on the ice and on TV calling the game expressing that this was a goal.

Prior to that the officials even got together to discuss this as a group before registering the incorrect call.
But none of that proves they were not aware of what the rule was, all it shows is that they did not see or feel there was a throwing motion initially and thus waved off the goal.
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Old 03-04-2019, 04:50 PM   #45
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But none of that proves they were not aware of what the rule was, all it shows is that they did not see or feel there was a throwing motion initially and thus waved off the goal.
BOTH refs have an unobstructed view of the play, and without review, as soon as the play occurs, the play-by-play guy says "Well that's a goal." the instant it happens. There's no way you could mis-construe what the play was, that Ovechkin somehow got hooked up in the stick. And there's no "intent" in the rule -

"The goalkeeper may attempt to stop the shot in any manner
except by throwing his stick or any object, or by deliberately dislodging
the goal, in which case a goal shall be awarded."

This is black and white. So the only argument could be that they simply didn't see it. Both of them. At the same time. What everyone else saw, and which, let's face it, was perfectly obvious. For real, if neither ref saw that this was a thrown stick, then neither of them should be working in the NHL. Or maybe any league. And I'm not a ref-hater - I am astonished at how often they get touchy calls just right at speed in the heat of the moment - it's amazing. Even more reason why there's no excuse for this one. It's impossible they didn't see it, from 2 different, unobstructed angles.
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Old 03-04-2019, 04:59 PM   #46
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NHL refs are terrible...yet better than

Basketball (the worst)
Soccer
Football

Refs lol
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Old 03-04-2019, 05:07 PM   #47
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Robots.
You joke, but I think this is the answer.

I recently played a rec league game volleyball against a team from Stanford. They had a homemade setup where they setup a few cameras around the court hooked up to a computer running their software. It was pretty simple, all it did was watch for when the ball touched the ground and displayed a green in or red out on the screen. But at the same time it made the game go so much smoother. All the complex rules (even the context of the in/out) were still handled by the players, but it made it so much easier not having to think/argue about where exactly the ball hit.

I think the NHL should be looked at similar advancements. All reffing does not need to be automated (and is not yet technically feasible). But if they can get some AI assistance on some basic aspects, it could help the refs focus on the more complicated and less repetitive parts of their job.
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Old 03-04-2019, 05:28 PM   #48
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I think that the answer is a combination of refs are humans and make mistakes or are inconsistent. The game is fast, what looks clean from one angle, is an infraction from another.

Would be interesting if somehow they could record an nhl game using the refs eyes and then have the viewer make the call based on one look. I wonder how many of us would get it right......
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Old 03-04-2019, 05:39 PM   #49
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Absolutely none of us (assuming there are no ex high-level refs here) would get any of this stuff right without training, practice, education, and possibly... talent. I think it's a very hard job, and I didn't start the thread to be "HAHA refs are dumb."

I don't think the officiating is VERY good. I don't think it's VERY easy to fix. But I'd like to see something in place where headshots are called ... every game. Where a slash is a slash, whether it's 2 minutes into the game or 2 minutes left.
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Old 03-04-2019, 05:42 PM   #50
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Why are the refs and linesmen making critical calls on tiny iPads?

Always bugged me but shouldn’t be hard to fix.
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Old 03-04-2019, 05:53 PM   #51
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abhorrent and disgusting.
Vast majority of soccer fans think the same thing. Most hockey fans will tell you they hate diving. Most players will tell you it's garbage. Yet it still happens.

Players try to cheat the rules in pretty much every sport/game as much as possible. Some consider it cheating, some consider it being a smarter player.

As for how to fix the NHL:

Penalize penalties when penalties occur - regardless of players involved or game circumstance.
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Old 03-04-2019, 05:55 PM   #52
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In-game management aside, the biggest issue in NHL refereeing today is fandom. Refs call the game at speed, while your typical viewing anthropoid gets multiple camera angles, all at slower speed, all played over and over again, and STILL manages to get the call wrong due to fan bias.

To make matters worse, certain teams are covered by media personnel that attempt to use poor refereeing as an excuse for lousy team play (Edmonton...). When you, as lowly fan, hear about poor officiating from a perceived source of authority and alleged integrity, it adds to the 'bad ref' narrative. Once you commit to that narrative, it becomes self-fulfilling - you will find examples of how your team was jobbed, and if not, you'll create them. That video of all the infractions against McDavid is the perfect example.

Considering the speed of the game, I think the refs do a good job. Not perfect, but fine none-the-less.
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Old 03-04-2019, 05:57 PM   #53
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The problem is the refs not being refs. Instead the refs are what we call "game managers".

Which is basically a lack of consistency. For example if it's 3 mins left in a tie game, or we already called 3 penalties in a row on this one team, or it's the playoffs, then it's ok to put the whistles away.

If the refs made every single call we would have a very different game. The refs know it, the players know it, and the NHL knows it.

Personally, I think if the refs made every single call consistently the game would be slowed down with a lot of stoppages in play.

That is, till the players adjusted. Obviously the game would speed back up again.

But how long is that adjustment period? And is the NHL willing to go through that that?

Considering what happened with the slashing calls between the pre season and regular season in 2017? I don't think the NHL cares to go through this adjustment period.

Last edited by Zoller; 03-04-2019 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:10 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by TheSquatch View Post
BOTH refs have an unobstructed view of the play, and without review, as soon as the play occurs, the play-by-play guy says "Well that's a goal." the instant it happens. There's no way you could mis-construe what the play was, that Ovechkin somehow got hooked up in the stick. And there's no "intent" in the rule -



"The goalkeeper may attempt to stop the shot in any manner

except by throwing his stick or any object, or by deliberately dislodging

the goal, in which case a goal shall be awarded."



This is black and white. So the only argument could be that they simply didn't see it. Both of them. At the same time. What everyone else saw, and which, let's face it, was perfectly obvious. For real, if neither ref saw that this was a thrown stick, then neither of them should be working in the NHL. Or maybe any league. And I'm not a ref-hater - I am astonished at how often they get touchy calls just right at speed in the heat of the moment - it's amazing. Even more reason why there's no excuse for this one. It's impossible they didn't see it, from 2 different, unobstructed angles.
The opposite side ref (the play was moving away from him) was completely screened by the goalie and definitely couldn't see the stick leave the goalie's hand.

I have no idea where the near side ref was going, he looked to be horribly out of position, so doubt he saw anything either. His back was inexplicably to the play at one point.

I'm with Lubicon, they didn't see it well enough, in one take in real time to make the call.
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:36 PM   #55
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Agree with the sentiment that the refs try to be game managers but another huge piece not mentioned:

The sport is in transition from a pretty physical one to one where the culture is still hoping to retain the physical nature within a pretty obvious increasing reality where that physicality is at odds with player safety. Particularly in relation to brain injuries and head trauma.

So now you have rules that are trying to accomodate razor thin margins and basically subjectively executed. Now you have a world with no consistency, seemingly biased and nobody is happy. And it’s human nature and yes I definitely feel some teams have bias against them and I definitely feel the Flames are one of them. The bias thing isn’t necessarily new either. Detroit and Montreal for example would always seem to get the benefit of the doubt for years. Now things seem more pronounced.

So this issue won’t go away until the rules are easier to understand and clear to everybody on enforcement and not seemingly subjective requiring video review where another layer of subjectivity is applied. And the rule book has to be enforced, not selectively chosen to (game management problem). So those are the two big issues in my mind.
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Old 03-04-2019, 07:31 PM   #56
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They need to insulate ref's from players, coaches and management influencing their decision making by a non-stop confrontation about any and every call they make.
The verbal abuse refs take from coaches and to a lesser extent players is absolutely mindblowing the first time you hear it. I cant even imagine what it's like in the minors.
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Old 03-04-2019, 07:37 PM   #57
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I do find it intriguing that the flames are 2nd in the league in power plays.

How does the rest of the nhl feel?
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Old 03-04-2019, 07:42 PM   #58
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I do find it intriguing that the flames are 2nd in the league in power plays.

How does the rest of the nhl feel?
When you have the puck a lot and dominate play most nights, the other team tends to take penalties.

But having your media and fans constantly whine for more PPs is also a viable option, right?
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Old 03-04-2019, 07:44 PM   #59
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When you have the puck a lot and dominate play most nights, the other team tends to take penalties.

But having your media and fans constantly whine for more PPs is also a viable option, right?
Lol. Besides the point blowing over your head...

Edit: haha actually your comment is even more hilarious if you actually use your brain.

Last edited by Weitz; 03-04-2019 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 03-04-2019, 07:58 PM   #60
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The verbal abuse refs take from coaches and to a lesser extent players is absolutely mindblowing the first time you hear it. I cant even imagine what it's like in the minors.
They are well within the rules to penalize players and coaches for it.
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