12-07-2019, 03:19 PM
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#4061
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Interesting take. Definitely don't agree with most of what you say.
Lindholm is a #1 RW/C
Hanifin's ceiling is far, far higher than a #4 dman. To call him that is to fail to recognize his potential. He'll likely settle as a #2 IMO. This team has multiple potential top pairing dmen in Gio, Valimaki, Hanifin and Andersson. Just because we're deep doesn't mean you should underrate the guys who aren't playing top pairing minutes atm.
Hamilton is an offensive dman who has compete issues in his own zone. He can definitely play top pairing but I hated his effort and compete in the defensive zone. Not missing him one bit.
The trade remains a solid win for Calgary IMO. We got 2 core players for 1 core player. I guess Fox remains the wildcard.
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I don't see Hanifin as a core player. Core players are top pairing dmen and top line forwards imo. Hanifin has so far to go to be considered a top pairing defenseman, it isn't even funny. And you can't call Lindholm a #1C, unless you are ready to call Draisaitl one. He's a solid 1RW, but his effectiveness at C remains to be seen.
Slag Hamiton all you want but I bet if you polled the fans of other teams, most would view that trade as a loss.
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12-07-2019, 03:20 PM
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#4062
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada
Hamilton is by far the best player in the trade. Not even close and I like Lindholm. Franchise defensemen are work far more than a winger.
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Franchise D?
Not even close?
Turn down the hyperbole sir. How quickly people forget how godawful Hamilton is in his own zone at times. Gio absolutely carried him in the defensive zone. He ain't a franchise defensemen. He's a solid offensive defenseman who can play top pairing minutes. I'm guessing a lot of people aren't very good at judging Hamilton's defensive play, as evidenced by opinions of him before we dealt him and after.
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12-07-2019, 03:22 PM
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#4063
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Well many of us in live in a world where Lindholm is currently the best player in the deal. Perhaps you're the one in the alternate dimension?
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I think only those with Flame colored glasses think that Lindholm is the best player in the trade. Hamilton has been a beast this year, it's not even up for debate. He's likely going to be nominated for the Norris ffs.
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12-07-2019, 03:22 PM
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#4064
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoFleury
I bet if you polled the fans of other teams, most would view that trade as a loss.
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I doubt it....
Flames have a top line forward and a top 4 damn for a 1st line dman...
Of which Flames have control for many years....
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12-07-2019, 03:22 PM
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#4065
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Lindholm + Hanifin, cost controlled for 6 years, for Hamilton, Ferland, and Fox... Now, it's for Hamilton and a 2nd (long term).
Would rather have 2 quality players than one. The Flames won this trade the minute they signed both Elias and Noah to 6 year deals.
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12-07-2019, 03:24 PM
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#4066
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoFleury
I don't see Hanifin as a core player. Core players are top pairing dmen and top line forwards imo. Hanifin has so far to go to be considered a top pairing defenseman, it isn't even funny. And you can't call Lindholm a #1C, unless you are ready to call Draisaitl one. He's a solid 1RW, but his effectiveness at C remains to be seen.
Slag Hamiton all you want but I bet if you polled the fans of other teams, most would view that trade as a loss.
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LOL! Appealing to the authority of other fans who don't watch the Hurricanes or Flames play? That's a joke right?
Well you can define core player however you want but that doesn't match my definition. A young 22 year old dman who is going to be top 4 for years and years is definitely a core player.
How much did Gio develop after age 22? How about Brodie? Anyone who thinks Hanifin is what he is doesn't understand typical player development. Hanifin has tons of room to grow and all the attributes you want.
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12-07-2019, 03:24 PM
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#4067
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Pent-up
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
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I don’t consider it a loss at all due to adding Hanifin as well. Their cap hit is probably what Dougie will be making next season. But he’s the best player in the deal. Who cares if he’s good in his own zone? Is Karlsson? No, but they are elite offensive forces from the backend. I also believe he has no where to go but up defensively.
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12-07-2019, 03:25 PM
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#4068
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan
Lindholm + Hanifin, cost controlled for 6 years, for Hamilton, Ferland, and Fox... Now, it's for Hamilton and a 2nd (long term).
Would rather have 2 quality players than one. The Flames won this trade the minute they signed both Elias and Noah to 6 year deals.
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Noah is overpaid by about $1m for what he brings at the moment imo. That being said, it would be nice to see him with a competent partner for an extended stretch.
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12-07-2019, 03:25 PM
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#4069
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoFleury
I think only those with Flame colored glasses think that Lindholm is the best player in the trade. Hamilton has been a beast this year, it's not even up for debate. He's likely going to be nominated for the Norris ffs.
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How does that prove Lindholm is inferior to Hamilton? Oh it doesn't.
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12-07-2019, 03:28 PM
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#4070
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Pent-up
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
...How quickly people forget how godawful Hamilton is in his own zone at times. Gio absolutely carried him in the defensive zone. He ain't a franchise defensemen. He's a solid offensive defenseman who can play top pairing minutes. I'm guessing a lot of people aren't very good at judging Hamilton's defensive play, as evidenced by opinions of him before we dealt him and after.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
How does that prove Lindholm is inferior to Hamilton? Oh it doesn't.
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Huh?
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12-07-2019, 03:28 PM
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#4071
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoFleury
Noah is overpaid by about $1m for what he brings at the moment imo. That being said, it would be nice to see him with a competent partner for an extended stretch.
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He is a top 4 dman with a cap hit of 4.95m
With 4 more years after this season...
That's an awesome contract.
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12-07-2019, 03:29 PM
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#4072
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
LOL! Appealing to the authority of other fans who don't watch the Hurricanes or Flames play? That's a joke right?
Well you can define core player however you want but that doesn't match my definition. A young 22 year old dman who is going to be top 4 for years and years is definitely a core player.
How much did Gio develop after age 22? How about Brodie? Anyone who thinks Hanifin is what he is doesn't understand typical player development. Hanifin has tons of room to grow and all the attributes you want.
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Sometimes it's best to get the perspective of people who don't have a vested interest. LOL all you want, but you are one of the biggest homers on this board. The flames can do no wrong in your eyes despite the fact that this franchise has been wallowing in mediocrity for 3 decades.
I agree Hanifin does have tons of room to grow. Tons and tons of room really as he's not all that good right now. Does that mean he will grow? No. It's 50/50 at best, don't act like it's a certainty. For every Gio and Brodie, there's a hundred other guys who stalled out and never got better.
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12-07-2019, 03:31 PM
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#4073
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flambers
He is a top 4 dman with a cap hit of 4.95m
With 4 more years after this season...
That's an awesome contract.
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He plays in the top 4, yes. Does he excel? No. |I think you could put many, many other players in his place and we wouldn't miss a beat.
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12-07-2019, 03:32 PM
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#4074
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoFleury
Sometimes it's best to get the perspective of people who don't have a vested interest. LOL all you want, but you are one of the biggest homers on this board. The flames can do no wrong in your eyes despite the fact that this franchise has been wallowing in mediocrity for 3 decades.
I agree Hanifin does have tons of room to grow. Tons and tons of room really as he's not all that good right now. Does that mean he will grow? No. It's 50/50 at best, don't act like it's a certainty. For every Gio and Brodie, there's a hundred other guys who stalled out and never got better.
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Can you make your point without calling people homers?
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12-07-2019, 03:32 PM
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#4075
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
How does that prove Lindholm is inferior to Hamilton? Oh it doesn't.
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It's pretty hard to compare wingers to Dmen but do you honestly think Carolina would take Lindholm for Dougie one for one? I think they would laugh and ask BT to lose their number.
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12-07-2019, 03:33 PM
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#4076
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoFleury
Noah is overpaid by about $1m for what he brings at the moment imo. That being said, it would be nice to see him with a competent partner for an extended stretch.
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Hanifin is overpaid?
What are you smoking? He's making less than 5m per year. You put him on the free agency market and GM's would throw a high 6, maybe low 7 million dollar figure at him.
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12-07-2019, 03:33 PM
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#4077
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoFleury
It's pretty hard to compare wingers to Dmen but do you honestly think Carolina would take Lindholm for Dougie one for one. I think they would laugh and ask BT to lose their number.
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You seem to be ignoring contract considerations
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12-07-2019, 03:34 PM
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#4078
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan
Hanifin is overpaid?
What are you smoking? He's making less than 5m per year. You put him on the free agency market and GM's would throw a high 6, maybe low 7 million dollar figure at him.
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Like Jake Gardiner? I think you'd be surprised. Hanifin is very flawed player at this point. Gardiner's career arc might be a good comparable though.
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12-07-2019, 03:35 PM
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#4079
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoFleury
He plays in the top 4, yes. Does he excel? No. |I think you could put many, many other players in his place and we wouldn't miss a beat.
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If the Flames made him available, I bet the list of teams wanting to acquire the guy would be extremely long....
Could the Flames place other dman in the top 4 sure....
They are lucky to have lots of depth at defense.
Is he good top 4 dman, yes....
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12-07-2019, 03:35 PM
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#4080
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoFleury
It's pretty hard to compare wingers to Dmen but do you honestly think Carolina would take Lindholm for Dougie one for one? I think they would laugh and ask BT to lose their number.
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That wouldn't necessarily tell us anything as each team can have very different needs. Some teams need defense more and thus need Hamilton more. The Flames certainly need Lindholm WAY more than Hamilton.
If Carolina called us and offered us Dougie for Lindholm BT is the one laughing and hanging up IMO.
You live in your own world, we'll never see eye to eye on this. Time will tell who's right.
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