09-18-2019, 10:05 AM
|
#21
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savvy27
I wonder if Czarnik is going to get a look on Monahan's line? He looked good vs Van, but he played well and produced in the preseason last year too.
If Czarnik could fit in on that line, then it would leave the Flames with some really good players to fill out the rest of the forward ranks. Particularly the second and third lines where you could start with:
Tkachuk* - Lindholm - ??????
??????? - Backlund - Frolik
*hopefully
And then fill in the remained with some combination of: Bennett, Mangiapane, Dube and Ryan. Definitely potential for a strong top 9.
I'm also curious to see if the return of Mangiapane will lead to a Mangiapane - Ryan based line. There were effective with Hathaway and one would think that a better third member like Bennett could work as a scoring line.
|
You really need a two way player to fill Lindholm's spot IMO. Lindholm was also an effective forechecker. Neither for those areas are Czarnik's forte IMO.
IMO if you replace Lindholm it's more likely to be Mangiapane, or maybe even Bennett or Dube, than Czarnik.
|
|
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GioforPM For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:08 AM
|
#22
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
There are some intriguing questions heading into this game. I wonder if Czarnik gets a turn on the top line after a strong performance in Victoria. I am also curious to see if the Dube · Quine · Phillips line that was so effective in that game will remain together tonight.
|
See the biggest issue with Czarnik IMO has been his lack of a fit on a line, rather than a lack of skill.
He hasn't been able to work with Ryan as his center, because the line would end up being collectively too undersized. We saw this play out the same way for Dube as well. Mangiapane fit because he's stockier than the other two.
He hasn't been able to work with Backlund as his center, because that line has such heavy defensive responsibility.
Most of his success last year came on a line with Bennett and Jankowski, but Janko was our worst center 5v5 by far last year. I was strongly advocating Bennett at 3C and still am, as I think this would get the most out of Czarnik.
Could Czarnik work with Gaudreau and Monahan? They defintely have less responsibility than thr Backlund line, so possibly. You do end up undersized on the wings which might make breakouts difficult, but it's worth experimenting with. Pittsburgh pulled it off a few years ago with Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel.
But the line I'd most like to see for Czarnik's positives to outweigh his negatives would be Mangiapane - Bennett - Czarnik.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
You really need a two way player to fill Lindholm's spot IMO. Lindholm was also an effective forechecker. Neither for those areas are Czarnik's forte IMO.
|
I think Czarnik is a strong forechecker.
He's not a pure two way player, but neither were Hudler or Ferland.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
Last edited by GranteedEV; 09-18-2019 at 10:11 AM.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to GranteedEV For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:09 AM
|
#23
|
All I can get
|
Gillies having strong outing would be a good problem to have.
|
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:09 AM
|
#24
|
Taking a while to get to 5000
|
https://twitter.com/user/status/1174353324738404352
Lines at skate:
Gaudreau-Monahan-Dube
Lucic-Ryan-Phillips
Rieder-Froese-Quine
Pospisil-Ruzicka-Rinaldo
Giordano-Andersson
Brodie-Hamonic
MacDonald-Stone
Nielsen-Yelesin
Gilles
Zagidulin
Czarnik scratched even after his big night.
|
|
|
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Toonage For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:11 AM
|
#25
|
First Line Centre
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonage
https://twitter.com/user/status/1174353324738404352
Lines at skate:
Gaudreau-Monahan-Dube
Lucic-Ryan-Phillips
Rieder-Froese-Quine
Pospisil-Ruzicka-Rinaldo
Giordano-Andersson
Brodie-Hamonic
MacDonald-Stone
Nielsen-Yelesin
Gilles
Zagidulin
Czarnik scratched even after his big night.
|
Wow, Dube and Phillips getting every opportunity to succeed
|
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:13 AM
|
#26
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2016
Location: ATCO Field, Section 201
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
See the biggest issue with Czarnik IMO has been his lack of a fit on a line, rather than a lack of skill.
He hasn't been able to work with Ryan as his center, because the line would end up being collectively too undersized. We saw this play out the same way for Dube as well.
He hasn't been able to work with Backlund as his center, because that line has such heavy defensive responsibility.
Most of his success last year came on a line with Bennett and Jankowski, but Janko was our worst center 5v5 by far last year. I was strongly advocating Bennett at 3C and still am, as I think this would get the most out of Czarnik.
Could Czarnik work with Gaudreau and Monahan? They defintely have less responsibility than thr Backlund line, so possibly. You do end up undersized on the wings which might make breakouts difficult, but it's worth experimenting with. Pittsburgh pulled it off a few years ago with Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel.
But the line I'd most like to see for Czarnik's positives to outweigh his negatives would be Mangiapane - Bennett - Czarnik.
|
I have been pretty outspoken about Czarnik. I can appreciate that he has lots of offensive skill but what he is missing is very important for middle to bottom six wingers. Czarnik is a liability in his own zone, and generally useless in board battles. The only times that Czarnik is effective is when he is in open ice with the puck. In that case he has to wait for someone else to get him the puck if he is going to have a positive impact on the game. That is why guys like Mangiapane and Dube have passed him on the depth chart, they have the same open ice play, but they are also more effective on the fore check and backcheck. Czarnik is a one trick pony, and he is not so good at his trick that it makes up for everything else.
|
|
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TheIronMaiden For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:19 AM
|
#27
|
Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
...I think Czarnik is a strong forechecker.
He's not a pure two way player, but neither were Hudler or Ferland.
|
Weird. I didn't think Czarnik was at all good on the forecheck last year. And for my money, if his placement on the top line meant a return to effectiveness that mirrored the days when Hudler and Ferland patrolled Monahan's right side, then I am not interested. Maybe its not bad, but it is no where near as good as that line with Lindholm on it.
|
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:23 AM
|
#28
|
Taking a while to get to 5000
|
Wills suggesting the D pair that sits will be Brodie-Hamonic
so clearly Peters saw them together in 2017...
|
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:24 AM
|
#29
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
I think Czarnik is a strong forechecker.
He's not a pure two way player, but neither were Hudler or Ferland.
|
I can't agree on the first one. Czarnik's biggest weakness to me is a lack of will to play in dirty areas, including the corner. When he actually does it, he can be effective - I've seen it too. But he doesn't do it very often.
Hudler was an OK forechecker for his size and speed. Ferland was all about the forecheck, at least the phsyical aspect. But more to the present point, the top line had its best year ever when Lindholm was added, because he is a dog on bone forechecker, and he provided defensive responsibility on the backcheck.
I see Dube is on the top line tonight and, to me, he is a lot closer to Lindholm in style than Czarnik is.
|
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:24 AM
|
#30
|
Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
|
I assume Gillies will play 60 mins tonight.
|
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:28 AM
|
#31
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
if his placement on the top line meant a return to effectiveness that mirrored the days when Hudler and Ferland patrolled Monahan's right side, then I am not interested. Maybe its not bad, but it is no where near as good as that line with Lindholm on it.
|
There is no meaningful statistical difference between Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland and Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm 5v5. The CF% and GF% were almost identical. I've posted this before, but if you want I can post it again.
The main reason people say Lindholm fit better was because he was producing on both sides of special teams and on other lines whereas Ferland's success was more exclusive to 5v5 with those two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
I can't agree on the first one. Czarnik's biggest weakness to me is a lack of will to play in dirty areas, including the corner. .
|
Sure, but forechecking is more than just that.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to GranteedEV For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:35 AM
|
#32
|
Some kinda newsbreaker!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Learning Phaneufs skating style
|
Czarnik has an ankle injury. Gillies will play the full game.
Derek Wills @Fan960Wills
Austin Czarnik, who scored two goals on Monday, will miss tonight’s game with an ankle injury sustained blocking a shot vs. #Canucks. Calgary native Matthew Phillips will take his spot in #Flames line-up vs. Sharks.
Pat Steinberg @Fan960Steinberg
Jon Gillies starts in net tonight vs. San Jose. He’ll play the whole game.
|
|
|
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to sureLoss For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:36 AM
|
#33
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2016
Location: ATCO Field, Section 201
|
That is tough for Czarnik, at 26 he doesn't have many more chances to prove that he has got it. Hopefully it's just soreness.
|
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:38 AM
|
#34
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
Sure, but forechecking is more than just that.
|
It's a huge part. Also, he's not that good at the other parts either. He doesn't seem to want the puck as much as others.
|
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:39 AM
|
#35
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2016
Location: ATCO Field, Section 201
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
It's a huge part. Also, he's not that good at the other parts either. He doesn't seem to want the puck as much as others.
|
As fast as the game has gotten I would argue that half of the game is still won along the boards and in the corners.
|
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:43 AM
|
#36
|
Resident Videologist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Calgary
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sureLoss
per the Flames projected rosters for tonight (subject to change)
|
I got a kick out of all the Flames listed "Last Name, First Name", then "Matthew, Phillips".
|
|
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to AC For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:43 AM
|
#37
|
Some kinda newsbreaker!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Learning Phaneufs skating style
|
|
|
|
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to sureLoss For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:53 AM
|
#38
|
Franchise Player
|
That Pospisil and Rinaldo line will likely lead to fireworks tonight.
__________________
Calgary Flames, PLEASE GO TO THE NET! AND SHOOT THE PUCK! GENERATING OFFENSE IS NOT DIFFICULT! SKATE HARD, SHOOT HARD, CRASH THE NET HARD!
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to 868904 For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-18-2019, 10:58 AM
|
#39
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonage
Lines at skate:
Gaudreau-Monahan-Dube
Lucic-Ryan-Phillips
Rieder-Froese-Quine
Pospisil-Ruzicka-Rinaldo
Giordano-Andersson
Brodie-Hamonic
MacDonald-Stone
Nielsen-Yelesin
Gilles
Zagidulin
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern
Wow, Dube and Phillips getting every opportunity to succeed
|
They have earned it with their play through 3 games so far (two prospect games and split squad) . I don't really see a spot for Phillips on the roster at this moment but if Frolik does end up getting moved it could open up.
Dube on the first line is interesting too because if there is chemistry there then Lindholm at center becomes more of a reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savvy27
I wonder if Czarnik is going to get a look on Monahan's line? He looked good vs Van, but he played well and produced in the preseason last year too.
If Czarnik could fit in on that line, then it would leave the Flames with some really good players to fill out the rest of the forward ranks. Particularly the second and third lines where you could start with:
Tkachuk* - Lindholm - ??????
??????? - Backlund - Frolik
*hopefully
And then fill in the remained with some combination of: Bennett, Mangiapane, Dube and Ryan. Definitely potential for a strong top 9.
I'm also curious to see if the return of Mangiapane will lead to a Mangiapane - Ryan based line. There were effective with Hathaway and one would think that a better third member like Bennett could work as a scoring line.
|
Depending on what happens with the Tkachuk contract there is opportunity for a very deep and very competitive forward group this year.
Personally I think Peters wants to be able to roll 4 lines more frequently, and has 4 forward pairings in mind.
Gaudreau - Monahan - ?????
Tkachuk - Lindholm - ?????
?????? - Backlund - Frolik
Lucic - Ryan - ?????
Then you have Bennett, Mangiapane, Dube, Czarnik, Jankowski, Reider, Rinaldo, etc filling in the question marks. And Gawdin, Phillips, Ruzicka, and Pospisil as prospects that have looked good so far in camp, and that could potentially push for a call up with a good start in the AHL.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 09-18-2019 at 11:06 AM.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-18-2019, 11:02 AM
|
#40
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
It's a huge part. Also, he's not that good at the other parts either. He doesn't seem to want the puck as much as others.
|
This does not at all feel like a description of the player I watched last year.
Whether it was with Tkachuk and Backlund or Bennett and Jankowski he seemed to always be near the puck and disrupting the breakout with his positioning and speed.
Terrible at board battles? Yes.
Relatively weak in backchecking? Sure.
But he was frequently playing a suffocating forecheck.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:03 PM.
|
|