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Old 09-16-2017, 11:45 AM   #141
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In what world is Hathaway a veteran?

Also, go Frolik go!
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Old 09-16-2017, 11:51 AM   #142
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Looks like they're settling into some lines/pairings already for the split squad game Monday. No overly crazy juggling or experimentation.

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Pat Steinberg @Fan960Steinberg - 10m

Versteeg-Bennett-Foo working as a trio again today. Lazar-Stajan-Shinkaruk together as a line, too. #Flames
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Pat Steinberg @Fan960Steinberg - 5m

The Valimaki-Andersson pair is still in tact after playing three games together in Penticton. Kulak-Stone paired again today, too. #Flames
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Old 09-16-2017, 11:57 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV View Post
We don't have the top end explosive forward talent of Dallas, Pittsburh, McDavid, Buffalo, Philly, Tampa, or Toronto but in terms of slotting and NHL-ready talent at every position we have to be up there. I don't think we have anyone slotted too high (maybe Frolik but I know others will disagree so we can leave it at that) and we have plenty of guys about to be slotted lower than they might deserve.
This. We don't have a McDavid or Seguin or Benn or Tavares.

However, they do have a well above average 1st line, one of the top 2nd lines, an above average 3rd line and now one of the best 4th lines.

That's what I was meaning by deep. Most good teams lack the talent in the 3rd/4th lines due to $$ problems and plug various levels of quality prospects in there because they have nothing else.

Calgary is lucky as they not only have quality vets like Brouwer, Stajan, Versteeg on the bottom 6, but also a large group of guys to draw from to play in the bottom 6 if injuries occur.

There is a difference between being deep and being the best skilled. The team is not the best skilled. We aren't Pittsburgh. We do have the depth though.
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Old 09-16-2017, 11:59 AM   #144
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FWIW, Brouwer looked pretty good today. All the vets looked ready and champing at the bit to get the season underway. I would not be shocked if they came storming out of the gates instead of what has been the familiar waffling to start the year.
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Old 09-16-2017, 12:04 PM   #145
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Are folks finding this training camp different than previous years? Team has a different vibe? Chip on there shoulder? It would be great if they came out hot out of the gate.
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Old 09-16-2017, 12:06 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by thymebalm View Post
The best teams score ~250 goals for a season
You're confusing highest scoring teams with best teams.

The top 4 teams last season, regular season GF:
Penguins 282
Predators 240
Ducks 223
Senators 212

So three out of 4 were well below the 250 mark. Winnipeg scored 249 and didn't even make the playoffs, while Montreal scored 226 like we did, and won their division. In other words: GF is not a very good marker for how good a team is.

As for the depth scoring, I did a quick calculation. Take the GF, remove goals scored by the top 6 scorers and all defensemen and the left is I believe a decent rough number for depth scoring.

Depth scoring 2016-17
Penguins: 87 goals
Flames: 70
Predators: 66
Ducks: 62
Senators: 58

We did lose Chiasson (24 points is good for a depth forward), and it's of course possible Versteeg won't have another 37 point season, but really I don't see much reason to worry about our depth scoring. Last season our weakness in scoring was our top 6, not our depth.

Btw, there's seems to be about 15-18 forwards who score at least 1 goal on each team in a season, so really when you start counting depth you should count at least 9 guys.
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Old 09-16-2017, 12:09 PM   #147
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Since Kulak is playing with Stone, it looks like the #6 spot is for him to lose.
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Old 09-16-2017, 12:17 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Caged Great View Post
FWIW, Brouwer looked pretty good today. All the vets looked ready and champing at the bit to get the season underway. I would not be shocked if they came storming out of the gates instead of what has been the familiar waffling to start the year.
Good. I hope it starts in Rogers place.
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Old 09-16-2017, 12:18 PM   #149
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Pretty much no surprises yet for us. (Except Frolik winning most in shape)
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Old 09-16-2017, 12:33 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by StrykerSteve View Post
In what world is Hathaway a veteran?
I believe the difference is just between those players who went to Penticton and did their fitness testing earlier and those who did the testing with the rest of the group.

Since Hathaway wasn't in the prospects testing group, he's a veteran.
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Old 09-16-2017, 12:42 PM   #151
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Glad things are going well so far but its usually the last few pre season games where we would start to see the cracks that find their way into the regular season. Still nice to hear they are looking good.
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Old 09-16-2017, 12:59 PM   #152
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Put me down as a big fan of the Versteeg-Bennet-Foo line.

I loved what the Versteeg Bennet duo did in the playoffs and Foo is very intriguing to me. Maybe I missed the announcement of which players were going where but I really hope they're in Calgary for the split squad game
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Old 09-16-2017, 01:40 PM   #153
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Lazar/Stajan/Brouwer/Jankowski - 19 goals last season
Bennett/Versteeg/Foo - 28 goals last season

We have stajan and lazar (regular scratches), Jankowski and Foo (unproven rookies) and Bennett/Versteeg/Brouwer - decent depth. Forecasting two rookies and two scratches into the bottom six and calling it the best in the league seems absurd to me.

It's also less than 50 goals combined for those 7 guys last year. The best teams score ~250 goals for a season.. 200 goals is a lot for the top 6 to make up. An impossible amount. It's not great scoring depth. The only way it's good is if all of these things happen:

A) Jankowski seemlessly transitions to the NHL and puts up numbers (1 GP)
B) Foo seemlessly transitions from college to the NHL and scores goals (0 GP)
C) Lazar at least matches the output from his best season (37 GP last season - 4pts)
D) Brouwer and Stajan increase their point totals in their 30s (rare feat)
E) Bennett rebounds from a regression last season and
F) Versteeg is still awesome.

I'm willing to bet on F and E - but anything else is hopes and dreams.

Since I'm so out to lunch here - how many goals are you guys projecting from Foo? Lazar? Stajan? Jankowski? Where does the depth scoring come from?
Stajan and Lazar are regular scratches? What the heck are you on about? That makes no sense.

A) is quite probable. Jankowski developed for 4 years in college and had a great rookie year in the AHL. Players on that development track are usually NHL ready and usually step in and immediately put up numbers.
B) is a toss up. I'm not counting on it. He may prove to be a somewhat productive NHLer at some point this season, its hard to say.
C) Lazar should most definitely start to accumulate some points now that he doesn't have mono and now that he's older. Not a stretch to see him contributing something. What will he contribute? Hard to say. Originally in scouting reports he was seen as a 2nd/3rd liner. With him making the NHL early it might've stunted his growth and he may only be a 3rd liner long term. But he certainly has the offensive skill to be more than a 4th liner.
D) I don't expect Stajan to increase his numbers. Brouwer certainly has a decent chance of bettering his numbers from last year.
E) I'd be willing to bet money that Bennett substantially increases his numbers. Given his skill and age this is about the time you'd expect he has a breakout year.

Hathaway scores in the minors. I'm not expecting huge numbers from him on 4th line RW but he should put up slightly more than he has previously.

Seems like you're being pessimistic on multiple fronts. Kind of a boring and lame stance to take IMO.

I too think the Flames have tremendous depth right now. Both on defense and up front. I'd say the depth of our bottom 6 is a strength of ours, not a weakness as you seem to think. Interesting we have such opposite views. You're relying far too much on past history, past numbers when we're a young team where multiple young players should be taking steps forward every year.

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Old 09-16-2017, 02:06 PM   #154
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Does anyone know how long the ice times typically are?
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Old 09-16-2017, 02:10 PM   #155
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No doubt. We don't even have a RWer that could crack most teams second lines. Saying we're one of the deepest teams screams having your homer glasses on. Maybe to say one of the deepest teams on defence would be more accurate.
The thing is, most teams have a hole at one position or another. There may be only five or six teams in the NHL that have bona fide "top-six" forwards in all six top forward positions. As a whole I think it is fair to say that the Flames are a deep team.
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Old 09-16-2017, 02:12 PM   #156
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Calgary Flames @NHLFlames
Our fitness testing results are in! Top 3 veterans:
1) Michael Frolik
2) @MarkGio05
3) @GarnetHathaway
Frolik is such a pro.
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Old 09-16-2017, 02:18 PM   #157
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Calgary Flames @NHLFlames
Our fitness testing results are in! Top 3 veterans:
1) Michael Frolik
2) @MarkGio05
3) @GarnetHathaway

Top 3 prospects:
1) Josh Healey
2) Dillon Dube
3) @brettpollock39
Really impressed seeing who won the prospect fitness testing as well.

None of Healey, Dube, or Pollock are expected to have much of a shot at the Flames this season. They'd have to have an outstanding camp. But it really impresses me that they take their opportunity so seriously that they outwork all of the other prospects in the offseason to come into camp in the best shape.

We talk occasionally about wanting upward pressure from our prospects to force veterans to stay on top of their game. Guys like Healey, Dube and Pollock are putting upward pressure on our top prospects, forcing the prospects to up their game. That's great to see.
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Old 09-16-2017, 02:18 PM   #158
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No doubt. We don't even have a RWer that could crack most teams second lines. Saying we're one of the deepest teams screams having your homer glasses on. Maybe to say one of the deepest teams on defence would be more accurate.
Say what? Both Ferland and Frolik could easily play 2nd line RW on most teams in the league. Our depth at LW and C is above average for sure.

Flames depth up front is the deepest its been in the past 20+ years I've been following the team. Of course some of that relies on projection, on young highly regarded players improving and establishing themselves. But we're not relying on 18 or 19 year olds to step in and contribute out of nowhere. Jankowski (23), Bennett (21), Lazar (22). There's very good reason to think these players at their age will be breaking out this year. Our course the pessimists don't want to count on that, they never do. But its realistic to expect those guys are breakout candidates based on typical career trajectories with their upside and skill.

Time will tell. I think we've got great depth up front and on the blue line. And the kind of depth in the minors that will allow us to survive injuries as well.

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Old 09-16-2017, 02:21 PM   #159
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Does anyone know how long the ice times typically are?
Yesterday they were all about 80 minutes in length. Kind of went 8:30 goalies on the ice 8:50 players on ice practice till about 10:20, clean the ice, next goalies out at 10:30, rest of team out about 10:50, practice till 12:20 and so on. Puts them threw the paces forsure, when Rasmus Andersson was skating off dave Cameron asked him how it went, his response "hard as ####, but good"
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Old 09-16-2017, 02:31 PM   #160
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The thing is, most teams have a hole at one position or another. There may be only five or six teams in the NHL that have bona fide "top-six" forwards in all six top forward positions. As a whole I think it is fair to say that the Flames are a deep team.

I would say that's even high. Maybe 2-3 teams have 6 legitimate top 6 forwards. And in those cases it wouldn't be surprising to see weakness on D. That's just the cap world that we live in now.
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