Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[Phagoof]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Jesse Puljujarvi
Dylan Strome
Michael Dal Colle
Valeri Nichushkin
Griffin Reinhart

That Reinhart trade is looking really bad. NYI took Barzal with that 1st and EDM lost Reinhart to Vegas

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The counterargument is Yakupov. But there's the Edmonton factor there.

Yakupov was a different type of player though. Edmonton certainly rushed him and that probably contributed but selfish, one dimensional scoring wingers with no elite skills are a much bigger bust risk IMO than more well rounded players like Backlund, Lindholm and Bennett. Yakupov was always a puck hogging scorer who didn’t utilize his line mates well and wasn’t great defensively. He didn’t have elite speed, a Laine/Ovechkin type shot or above average size/strength. So if he couldn’t score there’s no role for him.

Exmonton’s scouts didn’t have Yakuov #1 that year, they had Ryan Murray. The Flames has Galchenyuk ahead of Yakupov.

I really don’t see any comparison between Yakupov and guys like Bennett, Backlund and Lindholm. Totally different types of players. Bennett in particular is a better skater than Yakupov, better defensively, better physicality, better vision and playmaking.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The counterargument is Yakupov. But there's the Edmonton factor there.

Originally Posted by David Struch

Jesse Puljujarvi
Dylan Strome
Michael Dal Colle
Valeri Nichushkin
Griffin Reinhart

No one is saying that every player will eventually get it. In fact, no one is saying that Bennett will definitely put it all together. The simple point is that writing him off at this stage, considering his talent level, is foolish.

Also, Nichushkin and Puljuvarvi may still be NHLers as well (but that's beside the point)

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Jesse Puljujarvi
Dylan Strome
Michael Dal Colle
Valeri Nichushkin
Griffin Reinhart

Yes, sometimes players don't work out, though for most of those guys you named the jury is still out (I mean, Puljujarvi is only in his D+3). Sometimes they do and that's why one needs to make their observations carefully. There are definitely players who have had some real success, but not until many years after their draft day. Some of them were even very high picks, such as:

Blake Wheeler
Brayden Schenn
Nazem Kadri
Kyle Turris
Elias Lindholm
Sean Couturier

For a prospect to break out, a lot of factors, both internal and external, have to go right. Sometimes teams make a serious long term investment in their prospects, even at the expense of short term success - the highest scoring line in hockey right now is Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen, and yet two years ago they were each part of a team that had only 48 points. A prospect usually needs a defined role, both ES and on special teams. Brad Treliving mentioned in the offseason that the Flames were looking for forwards they thought were ready-to-pop but had not yet. The two young right wingers they acquired were Austin Czarnik and Elias Lindholm. Do you think they acquired these guys based solely on their counting stats? Or do you think they thought there were attributes that would make these two players successful if given more, or better opportunity?

In fact, when you compare every minute Lindolm and Bennett have played in the NHL, including this season, their 5 on 5 production is eerily similar:

5 on 5

Ages:
Sam Bennett: 18-22
Elias Lindholm: 18-23

TOI Total:
Sam Bennett: 3351.85
Elias Lindholm: 5182.23

Goals/sixty minutes:
Sam Bennett: 0.68
Elias Lindholm: 0.51

Assists/sixty minutes
Sam Bennett: 0.72
Elias Lindholm: 0.83

Points/Sixty minutes:
Sam Bennett: 1.40
Elias Lindholm: 1.34

How does that happen, that Sam "Stone Hands" Bennett has to-date produced minute-for-minute about the same as our current leading goal scorer at 5 on 5?

[GioforPM]

I was just taking a shot at Edmonton about Yakupov.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Ped

Still amazes me that people assume Bennett is going to emerge offensively just because Backlund did.
He could. But at this point it's far more possible that he likely won't.

No one is "assuming" anything, simply put some people aren't writing him off yet.

[David Struch]

Well Sam Bennett finally got another goal last night, although it was pretty much just James Neal shooting the puck off of him while he was in the crease, they all count in the end!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Well Sam Bennett finally got another goal last night, although it was pretty much just James Neal shooting the puck off of him while he was in the crease, they all count in the end!

I think it was Ryan.

[The Boy Wonder]

That goal makes up for the disallowed one early in the season.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Yes, sometimes players don't work out, though for most of those guys you named the jury is still out (I mean, Puljujarvi is only in his D+3). Sometimes they do and that's why one needs to make their observations carefully. There are definitely players who have had some real success, but not until many years after their draft day. Some of them were even very high picks, such as:

Blake Wheeler
Brayden Schenn
Nazem Kadri
Kyle Turris
Elias Lindholm
Sean Couturier

What? By Bennett's current age Kadri had already put up a near point-per-game season...

Wheeler's rookie season was better than anything Bennett has done to date.

Turris heldout at the same age Bennett is now, but 29 points in 55 games that season is still over a 40 point pace. Similarly with Couturier who had 39 points in 63 games (over 50 point pace). Schenn's lockout season is pro-rated to 45 points. You're cherry picking players who missed games, not players like Bennett who played but couldn't produce.

And then Lindholm is 23, Bennett is 22. Lindholm has 210 points in 395 games. Bennett has 95 points in 262.

Outside of Kadri who's best season came when he was 21, you listed a bunch of players who had "40+ point seasons." Those would be good comparables if Bennett was on pace for 40+ point this season. He's on pace for 23, and that's after back-to-back games where he registered a point.

I don't think anyone will disagree that a 21, 22 year old who's already established himself as 20-20-40 type player can go on and improve to 30-30-60 over the years, especially if they have shown constant improvement year after year. They've shown that they can produce in a top 6 role with top 6 numbers. With time on the top line, more PP, yeah, no one will be shocked. But Bennett is a 10-10 guy at this point who's regressed offensively, that's quite the difference.

[Armchair Quarterback]

Bennett is worth keeping, even if it's just for that 'stache. Beauty.

[stemit14]

Is it just me, or does Sam Bennett look like he speaks for the trees:




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

What? By Bennett's current age Kadri had already put up a near point-per-game season...

Wheeler's rookie season was better than anything Bennett has done to date.

Turris heldout at the same age Bennett is now, but 29 points in 55 games that season is still over a 40 point pace. Similarly with Couturier who had 39 points in 63 games (over 50 point pace). Schenn's lockout season is pro-rated to 45 points. You're cherry picking players who missed games, not players like Bennett who played but couldn't produce.

And then Lindholm is 23, Bennett is 22. Lindholm has 210 points in 395 games. Bennett has 95 points in 262.

Outside of Kadri who's best season came when he was 21, you listed a bunch of players who had "40+ point seasons." Those would be good comparables if Bennett was on pace for 40+ point this season. He's on pace for 23, and that's after back-to-back games where he registered a point.

I don't think anyone will disagree that a 21, 22 year old who's already established himself as 20-20-40 type player can go on and improve to 30-30-60 over the years, especially if they have shown constant improvement year after year. They've shown that they can produce in a top 6 role with top 6 numbers. With time on the top line, more PP, yeah, no one will be shocked. But Bennett is a 10-10 guy at this point who's regressed offensively, that's quite the difference.

You really don't like him eh?

He has been a momentum changer and a positive impact on the ice every single game this year (except pittsburgh but who was)

You can see that he has actively trasnformed his game. Will he likely be our #1 C like we drafted him to be? No

But the way he is playing the points will start to come. You can already see the game is slowing down for him a bit and will continue to do so.

He may never get to being a 35 - 35 - 70 player like we all hoped but if he can turn into a defensively solid, speedy, hard hitting forward à la Tom Wilson (without the suspensions) he can be a very successful player for us.

His stats this year are misleading as with even mediocre luck would've gotten at least 5-6 more assists and probably 2 more goals which would put him at ~.75 ppg which is more than enough.

The line of Tkachuk - Backlund - bennett is playing really good hockey and its just a matter of time before both backlund and Bennett start finding the net.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I think the comparison to those players is that to varying degrees, they were underwhelming offensively early on in their careers, especially given their draft positions. Bennett has underperformed to a greater degree I suppose, but I think it is still fair to argue he can improve significantly, as those others did.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

You really don't like him eh?

I don't like comparing him to point-per-game players at that same age or calling for him to take Monahan's spot right now. It takes away from any credible discussion that is to be had.

I think he's great for what he is, a supporting player who provides energy. Which teams need to win. But, and I hate to break it to many on this forum, I don't think he's winning the scoring title this year.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Yes Bennett ‘regressed’ the last 2 years.

The Flames had a garbage coach that facilitated that regression.

Some people were pointing out that under GG, many players underperformed. Gio went from 60 points to 40 ish. Brodie was almost run out of town. Bennett was thrown in a blender with plugs.

This year things are different. Different opportunity, and he seems to be responding to the new coach. It would be nice if the naysayers would acknowledge what is in front of their eyes, and let it play out.

Yeah, he is on pace for (whatever). Guess what? He had two games on the 4th line and wasn’t productive. He was then on pace for the wastebin of Flames history. Now he has 2-3 games on the second line, and it is being discounted. It’s pretty darn tedious

Nobody thinks he is winning the scoring title

[GioforPM]

Other examples for late bloomers are Backlund, Bailey, Rakell, Schenn, Jokinen, Brassard, Ryan (though not when he finally made the show), Kesler, Couturier.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Late bloomers include Brassard? A beast of a rookie who was looking like a Calder lock before his season-ending injury? Great comparables there.

And again, it's not just late bloomers but players who regressed. A player who improves each season until their early 20s makes sense and aren't hard to come by.

Why don't we look at comparables of players who were looked at as top 6, top liners even, early in their career based on their expectations but developed into energy support players? We don't need to talk about 100 point players like Jokinen in a Bennett thread.

Edit; Lol, I'm an idiot about Jokinen's early seasons ha.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I don't like comparing him to point-per-game players at that same age or calling for him to take Monahan's spot right now. It takes away from any credible discussion that is to be had.

I think he's great for what he is, a supporting player who provides energy. Which teams need to win. But, and I hate to break it to many on this forum, I don't think he's winning the scoring title this year.

I don't think there is a single person here who thinks bennett will win the scoring title, this year or any year.

He has transformed his game, and I think that yes he is currently a supporting player. But he is a top 6 supporting player and is solidifying himself in that spot. I'd expect, we will see some offensive uptick at 5v5 if he ever starts shooting at more than 6% and backlund does too.

Do I think he can get to be a 50 point player? absolutely, but not this year.

No one is calling for him to take Mony's position, or at least no one rational is calling for that, But do i think he has earned his spot on the second line W spot? absolutely.

[Bingo]

Why the extremes?

Scoring title? Who has ever come close to suggesting that?

Bennett playing better is a good thing. I see a player that has figured it out and found a role now, which is such a huge thing in the National Hockey League. He generates chances and makes his linemates better. The fact that he's consistently showing up for every game and plays physical is a huge bonus on a team that seems to feed off of energy.

His downside isn't going away though. He doesn't do much with his chances and that may continue or it may not. Last night he scored with his ass, but had two better chances that resulted in shots, but not overly dangerous ones.

If he improves his shot he could pop. If he doesn't he's found a role that will make him a very good third liner on a deep deep team, or an above average complimentary player on second line.

This is a good thing Calgary fans ... don't fight it.