What is a bust?

[Manhattanboy]

nm

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I like the framework laid out in the OP. I think bust should only apply to 1st round picks, but I would only apply that term to someone taken in the top 15-20. Even in the back half of the first round, there's no guarantee that a guy is going to be an NHLer.

I would stick to top 10 picks, as those players should ALWAYS be NHLers, and likely have long careers. Being sure to eliminate those players who don't reach the games played threshold because of injury, you could definitely say the framework in the OP makes sense for top 10 picks.

Not sure what a wash out or "super" bust is. You either bust or you don't. We don't need shades of gray to determine your level of bustiness.

[Lanny_McDonald]

[stang]

I think you need to apply points and where they fit in on the lineup, based on draft position.

I mean if Yakupov carved out a longer career because he could play 3rd line minutes, I’d still consider him a bust due to being 1st overall, just like Patrick Stefan, who played almost 500 games. So other factors besides GP have to come in.

[Bourque's Twin]

Some busts that come to mind around the league:
Yakupov, Puljujarvi, G. Reinhart, Paajarvi come to mind. Oh wait, that’s just the Oilers.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Broken out from the ongoing Sam thread, and timely as THN is out with their definitions in their latest edition.

They use a few different terms, but I find the framework interesting

Bust:
- Top 3 picks who don't reach 700 games
- Top 5 picks who don't reach 500
- First rounders who don't reach 200

Super-bust
- Player fails to reach 100

Wash-out
- Player fails to reach 10

Pretty close to how I see it ... maybe a little more stringent.

"If you have a NHL career you can't be a bust"

But reading comments from others, I certainly get the other way of thinking.

[Huntingwhale]

I don't get that Daigle is labelled a bust like he is. He played over 600 games, is over 0.5 ppg, some 20 goal/50 point seasons. He was very much an NHLer in top 6 role. Injuries ravaged him, but he was a decent NHLer. Not his fault the scouts pumped him up to be a saviour.

If Daigle is to be labelled a bust, then Sam Bennett is by far a much bigger one. However as disappointing as Bennett has been due to his draft position, at least he found a role and a way to stick around. He'll likely go on to have a decent career.

I think a bust should be a player drafted high who can't even stay in the NHL. Yakupov for sure. Any other top 10 pick who could barely stick around.

[Johnhitbox]

This forum confuses the hell out of me sometimes. One minute everyone is arguing politics, and hockey. But we can always rely on breast to bring us together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bossy22]

As an Islander fan, Dave Chyzowski.

[CSharp]

The Flames have so many first round picks that were busts, it's not even funny!

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by CSharp

The Flames have so many first round picks that were busts, it's not even funny!

That's the thing about what fans call "busts" though. It's not always on the players.

Sometimes players development gets derailed due to injuries (Tkaczuk, Fata, Chucko, Pelech, Irving).

Sometimes fans over-hype players with unreasonable expectations (Baertschi, Saprykin, Kobasew, Jankowski).

Other times players just don't develop they "bust" (Bennett, Kidd, Nystrom etc..)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Sometimes GMs over-hype players with unreasonable expectations ( Jankowski).

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Absolutely!!

Like did he actually bust? Or was the whole world right when they pretty much laughed at the pick...

[pepper24]

For the Flames the first one that comes to mind is Sam Bennett.

[gilligans_off]

Originally Posted by New Era

Question, is this now a bust of a bust? Double bust? Semi-bust bust? I need more coffee.

[GioforPM]

The famous ones are 1OA: Daigle, Stefan, Yak. You might throw in Lawton as well, since .5 ppg in the high scoring 80s isn't great. And some are busts in comparison - Wickenheiser versus Savard, DiPietro versus Luongo (who got traded so they could make that pick).

Top 5 guys you could include: Puljujarvi, Brendl, Volchkov, G. Reinhart, Svitov, etc.

[Ped]

For me, busting comes down to expectations for a player.


So yes, Daigle is a bust, considering how much he was hyped, despite the fact he put together a pretty decent career.


Yakupov, Puljujarvi, Bennett, Virtanen, Gormley, Connolly, etc.


But I go more by feel than by a strict definition.

[Karl]

Alek Stojanov

7th overall pick in 1991 NHL draft

107 career NHL games played, 7 total points (2 goals, 5 assists), 222 PIM

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

That's the thing about what fans call "busts" though. It's not always on the players.

Sometimes players development gets derailed due to injuries (Tkaczuk, Fata, Chucko, Pelech, Irving).

Sometimes fans over-hype players with unreasonable expectations (Baertschi, Saprykin, Kobasew, Jankowski).

Other times players just don't develop they "bust" (Bennett, Kidd, Nystrom etc..)

I posted this earlier in the Bennet's thread. Here are all the Flames busts and all drafted in the first round by the Flames organization:

Klimchuk
Poirier
Sven Baertschi - borderline
Tim Erixon
Greg Nemisz
Leland Irving
Matt Pelech
Kris Chucko
Brent Kranh
Rico Fata
Daniel Tkaczuk - at least he was traded in a package and the Flames got Roman Turek
Chris Dingman - at least he won a frickin Cup with the Avs, lucky bugger!!!
Jesper Mattsson
Niklas Sundblad
Jason Muzzatti
Bryan Deasley
Chris Biotti

I was an early caller of Bennett being a bust, but it's not the case anymore and it's more like a huge disappointment at this point since he actually shows up if the Flames ever makes it into the playoffs. It is too bad he was rushed into the NHL immediately. A couple of in the minors would've been beneficial to his development.

I don't think Janko is a bust and I don't think his hype was a much as Bennett. However, Janko was plucked too early in the draft for his age. I think the Flames were in desperate need of a big centerman for the future and Janko was still growing when he was drafted. I think people on this board tries to deflect Bennett's criticism by bringing Janko (or some other players) as a comparison. However, being a 3rd/4th liner from the start and holding his own on a PK, I think he's done a decent job. Everyone is looking for production from certain players, but you ain't gonna get it from players on 3rd/4th lines on most nights.

I would call it a bust if the player totally don't make it to the NHL or played only for a short period of time and does not make it permanently as an NHL'er, especially if you're drafted in the first round. Expectations always come with that territory.

[GioforPM]

Flames have had pretty horrible first rounds. Really, MacInnis, Monahan, Roberts, Phaneuf, Backlund, Tkachuk and Morris have made much of a dent. Maybe you'd count Stillman, too. The rest are meh (eg. Quinn, Kobasew), had bad luck (and in the case of Pelawa, tragic), or were just bad bad picks - Chucko, Fata, Pelech, Muzatti, Biotti, Deasley).

However, they have managed some good deep mining and that's how you stay afloat: Fleury, Makarov, Hull, Suter, Brodie, Titov, Ferland and of course Gaudreau. Of course, that's homerism to a degree - I suspect every team has such a list.