[Trade] Hurricanes trade Fox to NYR for 2nd+Cond. 3rd UPD: Fox signs ELC

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

CHL players not signed after 2 years re-enter the draft not become UFA. That is what was going to happen to Erixon

I think they have a choice, do they not? Or am I completely out to lunch? I'm not in a position to double-check right now

Either way, CHL players are still under their draft team's control for 2 years compared to 4 for NCAA players

[dino7c]

The fact that Fox doesn't want to compete against good players for a job tells me all I need to know

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I think they have a choice, do they not? Or am I completely out to lunch? I'm not in a position to double-check right now

Either way, CHL players are still under their draft team's control for 2 years compared to 4 for NCAA players

Unsigned CHL players go back into the draft after 2 years.(Lombardi as an example) they can then be drafted by someone somewhere and choose not to sign there either, which after 2 more years they become UFA.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I think they have a choice, do they not? Or am I completely out to lunch? I'm not in a position to double-check right now

Either way, CHL players are still under their draft team's control for 2 years compared to 4 for NCAA players

Yeah you're a bit off here. CHL players who don't sign after 2 years have to reenter the draft and go undrafted before they become UFAs. CHL players can also sign an ELC and still play in the CHL which is obviously off the table for NCAA players. So depending how you define "team control", CHL players have more of an incentive to be under team control than NCAA players do.

The argument that all the same conditions apply to CHL players as NCAA players is disingenuous. For a CHL player to hold out for UFA and then sign with a team of their choosing, they first need all 31 teams to pass on them in the draft, meaning it's not something a top prospect can legitimately pull off.

[TheScorpion]

Thanks for the clarifications, dudes!

[FlamesAddiction]

When asked for comment, Fox was quoted as saying; “Hatee hatee hatee ho”.

[midniteowl]

Now he's gonna get boo in two arenas if he makes it to NHL.

[Barca]

that's actually preety great value for a guy who hasn't played a single NHL game and has made it clear he was going to sign with NYR.

Carolina did good, they got two 2nds, Hamilton and Ferlund for Hanafin and Lindholm.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by Party Elephant

Yeah you're a bit off here. CHL players who don't sign after 2 years have to reenter the draft and go undrafted before they become UFAs. CHL players can also sign an ELC and still play in the CHL which is obviously off the table for NCAA players. So depending how you define "team control", CHL players have more of an incentive to be under team control than NCAA players do.

The argument that all the same conditions apply to CHL players as NCAA players is disingenuous. For a CHL player to hold out for UFA and then sign with a team of their choosing, they first need all 31 teams to pass on them in the draft, meaning it's not something a top prospect can legitimately pull off.

But CHL players who don't sign an ELC for either drafted teams would still be UFA after four years. The NCAA player leaves those four years with a degree and basically no money for those years. The CHL player has no degree and a small amount of money for playing Junior hockey. It's really not that different.

[Barca]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Now he's gonna get boo in two arenas if he makes it to NHL.

i don't think so, he hasn't had any connection with the fans to get the hate.

I don't remember if Justin Schultz was booed or not.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by Barca

that's actually preety great value for a guy who hasn't played a single NHL game and has made it clear he was going to sign with NYR.

Carolina did good, they got two 2nds, Hamilton and Ferlund for Hanafin and Lindholm.

Not really.

Carolina got:
1 year of Ferland
3 years of Hamilton
2 - 2nds

Flames got:
6 years of Hanifin
6 years of Linholm

[FlamesFanFromBC]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

We threw in a 5th rounder as well.

Trade was basically a 1st round pick and a 5th round pick for two 2nd round picks and a former 5th round pick.

In the Fox trade it is basically a 3rd round pick for a 2nd rounder and a 3rd which may turn into a 2nd round pick.

I would say objectively Fox brought back a bigger return.

I'm not disagreeing because I still think it was a great trade for the Flames... only way I dislike the trade is if he was willing to sign with Flames but chose not too.

The only thing I would say is 3rd round pick in 2016 but based on his development since then he is 1st round caliber player.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Party Elephant

Yeah you're a bit off here. CHL players who don't sign after 2 years have to reenter the draft and go undrafted before they become UFAs. CHL players can also sign an ELC and still play in the CHL which is obviously off the table for NCAA players. So depending how you define "team control", CHL players have more of an incentive to be under team control than NCAA players do.

The argument that all the same conditions apply to CHL players as NCAA players is disingenuous. For a CHL player to hold out for UFA and then sign with a team of their choosing, they first need all 31 teams to pass on them in the draft, meaning it's not something a top prospect can legitimately pull off.

No...that's not true.

All they have to do is refuse to sign with the team that drafted them the second time as well.

Regardless of where you get drafted out of, the fact is after the 4th draft once you become eligible for it, if you have not signed anywhere, you become a UFA.

At least this is how I understand things.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

But CHL players who don't sign an ELC for either drafted teams would still be UFA after four years. The NCAA player leaves those four years with a degree and basically no money for those years. The CHL player has no degree and a small amount of money for playing Junior hockey. It's really not that different.

True, but they're ineligible for junior hockey for at least the last year of holding out, so where are they gonna play in that time? Europe? Has any top prospect ever done this?

edit: this also applies to transplant99's reply.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

There is no MORE risk to drafting a college player than there is to drafting any player from anywhere else.

Any player can be drafted...wait 4 years without signing...and become UFA. No?

Only if you live in an alternate reality where highly drafted major junior players forego the first several years of their North American pro careers. Care to name some high-profile examples?

Why is it so hard to admit that while the rules may be technically the same, there are factors that make college players far more likely to ride out those 4 years and go to UFA than major junior players.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by Party Elephant

True, but they're ineligible for junior hockey for at least the last year of holding out, so where are they gonna play in that time? Europe? Has any top prospect ever done this?

For the most part, top prospects aren't the problem. They sign early and start playing, look at Johnny, or Quinn Hughes. For every Shultz, Fox or Hayes there are far more players who do sign. If a player wants to delay his chance at a pro career by four years, who are we to stop them?

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

For the most part, top prospects aren't the problem. They sign early and start playing, look at Johnny, or Quinn Hughes. For every Shultz, Fox or Hayes there are far more players who do sign. If a player wants to delay his chance at a pro career by four years, who are we to stop them?

That's the thing though. While we have numerous real world examples of NCAA players doing this, it is still a hypothetical for CHL players.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Barca

i don't think so, he hasn't had any connection with the fans to get the hate.

I don't remember if Justin Schultz was booed or not.

Anaheim booed him relentlessly.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by Party Elephant

That's the thing though. While we have numerous real world examples of NCAA players doing this, it is still a hypothetical for CHL players.

Not really. Erixon was CHL and was going back into the draft with the purpose of either being drafted by the Rangers or waiting two more years. Yes, I realize I have no proof, but that's seemed to be where he was heading. The biggest difference is that NCAA players leave with a degree. CHL player really get nothing but the shaft for benefit to hold out.

EDIT: Erixon wasn't CHL, he was SEL. But similar situation.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

But CHL players who don't sign an ELC for either drafted teams would still be UFA after four years. The NCAA player leaves those four years with a degree and basically no money for those years. The CHL player has no degree and a small amount of money for playing Junior hockey. It's really not that different.

Correct.

while a CHL player would have to get drafted twice, in terms of the amount of time to achieving UFA status, its still four years.

ending amateur status is something that is different between CHL and NCAA however, so there is less of a incentive not to sign as a CHL player, unless you really don't want to go to Edmonton