Job Seekers thread Mark 2

[RichieRich]

Not that it avoids cash outlay, but if you move more than (I think) 30km you can write off all incurred costs on your taxes so that helps a little.. next year.

[Bleeding Red]

Weitz

- If you don’t mind me asking, what sort of field are you looking in?

I don't mind.



I am an Event Producer in Toronto. For the last couple of years I have produced mostly fundraising events (gala dinners, community walks/rides). Before that I produced corporate seminars and conferences - continuing education events for lawyers, doctors, accountants.



Though the pandemic hit this industry hard, it is starting to come back a bit and there are jobs out there. I have been averaging 3-4 applications a week in the last 2 months. Many organizations are starting to look to 2022 with Event Industry Council data showing a desire to get off of zoom.



I have my certification and solid experience.

But I am a bit stuck between not being new enough for an entry level position and not having enough management experience to get the top end positions.

[CaptainCrunch]

Let me know if you need anything else from me Bleeding, iirc we did do a resume review, would be interested in any feedback from that.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Let me know if you need anything else from me Bleeding, iirc we did do a resume review, would be interested in any feedback from that.

We did do a resume and cover letter review, and I really thank you for that - it gave me a bit of a pick-me-up push.

The formats you helped me with have done two key things:
- My accomplishments and skills are much clearer and up front. Before my skills were lost in company names and job titles.
- The resume and cover letter have become easier to adapt to the job description - moving key skills up, using key words, highlighting solid examples

A couple of my "advisors" really like the flexibility and unique order (Skills, accomplishments, Unique note, work history, Education) rather than the usual work history, responsibilities, education.

I haven't received any feedback from people I've applied to about my resume - It seems once you've been dropped, either at the initial stage or after an interview, no one wants to reply to any emails.


Thanks again for the help, I really appreciate it.

[RichieRich]

Gear grinder... having an interview, then being told you don't have the job, but then zero further engagement to provide feedback on what went well or could have been done better. Sigh...
Let's hope this week goes better with my interviews (already had first interview for these). Typically by the 2nd interview... that implies being short listed, right? Like down to the last 2? 3? 5? This would be for a technical role in O&G.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

We did do a resume and cover letter review, and I really thank you for that - it gave me a bit of a pick-me-up push.

The formats you helped me with have done two key things:
- My accomplishments and skills are much clearer and up front. Before my skills were lost in company names and job titles.
- The resume and cover letter have become easier to adapt to the job description - moving key skills up, using key words, highlighting solid examples

A couple of my "advisors" really like the flexibility and unique order (Skills, accomplishments, Unique note, work history, Education) rather than the usual work history, responsibilities, education.

I haven't received any feedback from people I've applied to about my resume - It seems once you've been dropped, either at the initial stage or after an interview, no one wants to reply to any emails.


Thanks again for the help, I really appreciate it.

Thanks I appreciate the feedback, If there's anything on the modification side, I'm here to learn as well, in case I ever decide to go back to regular employment. My contractor resume is really different.



Anything I can do to help let me know.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by RichieRich

Gear grinder... having an interview, then being told you don't have the job, but then zero further engagement to provide feedback on what went well or could have been done better. Sigh...
Let's hope this week goes better with my interviews (already had first interview for these). Typically by the 2nd interview... that implies being short listed, right? Like down to the last 2? 3? 5? This would be for a technical role in O&G.

I've always thought fine on rejection and no comment on the initial stage. Its just a matter of math, people are getting so many applications that it would be impossible to give feedback to everyone. Though with me, if I see something really egregious, that would destroy the persons chances anywhere, I would be tempted to reach out with a "Hey we're not moving forward, but I noticed this in your resume" type of message.



In terms of the interview side, I don't necessarily have a problem giving feedback, but I make sure they understand that its either an email and done, or a like 3 minute call and then done.



To be honest HR people and recruiters really are unsuited to be career counselors during the search, they often don't even have a reason for rejection beyond, did not match the requirements. If its the hiring authority doing the interview, they maybe don't want to engage after the interview due to time, or focus. There's also the fear that the person that's rejected is going to become a time bandit as they fight for the opportunity lost. So that's one of the main reasons for non engagement.


The only time you'll ever get real feedback is if you get to the "Finals" and lose because there is a bit of a fostered relationship. Though nowdays it seems that people will hide behind emails, send one out saying we went with someone else and then ghost because they don't want the emotional discussion.


Its a weird world, built around efficiency and non confrontation. Maybe someday I'll write a book called, I hate people a look at modern business communications.

[InglewoodFan]

Originally Posted by RichieRich

Gear grinder... having an interview, then being told you don't have the job, but then zero further engagement to provide feedback on what went well or could have been done better. Sigh...
Let's hope this week goes better with my interviews (already had first interview for these). Typically by the 2nd interview... that implies being short listed, right? Like down to the last 2? 3? 5? This would be for a technical role in O&G.

Even more grindy, having the interview and never hearing back ever again. I sent three follow up emails to the recruiter who set this engagement up and never heard back. I'm obviously assuming I didn't get the job, and it wasn't a great fit anyway. But man, close the loop. This was a multi-national recruiting firm and the interview was with a top 5 integrated O&G. It's bizarre.

Good luck this week RichieRich! As a data point, when I'm interviewing folks if it is a second interview they are down to last 2-3.

[RichieRich]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I've always thought fine on rejection and no comment on the initial stage. Its just a matter of math, people are getting so many applications that it would be impossible to give feedback to everyone. Though with me, if I see something really egregious, that would destroy the persons chances anywhere, I would be tempted to reach out with a "Hey we're not moving forward, but I noticed this in your resume" type of message.

In terms of the interview side, I don't necessarily have a problem giving feedback, but I make sure they understand that its either an email and done, or a like 3 minute call and then done.

To be honest HR people and recruiters really are unsuited to be career counselors during the search, they often don't even have a reason for rejection beyond, did not match the requirements. If its the hiring authority doing the interview, they maybe don't want to engage after the interview due to time, or focus. There's also the fear that the person that's rejected is going to become a time bandit as they fight for the opportunity lost. So that's one of the main reasons for non engagement.

The only time you'll ever get real feedback is if you get to the "Finals" and lose because there is a bit of a fostered relationship. Though nowdays it seems that people will hide behind emails, send one out saying we went with someone else and then ghost because they don't want the emotional discussion.

Its a weird world, built around efficiency and non confrontation. Maybe someday I'll write a book called, I hate people a look at modern business communications.

This was a few weeks back, but I did have a great interview, thought we made a great connection. Got the PFO email to which I responded.... to the effect of ..." Thanks for the opportunity... blah blah, yes I'm disappointed and the decision has been made however I'd appreciate some learnings and advice by way of email or just a couple mins on the phone." Nope; ghosted. I figure by the FINAL cut people should be able to offer a succinct happy/crappy list.

[CaptainCrunch]

People don't want what they perceive as confrontation. So they ghost without giving feedback.



A recruiter will build up in their mind that the follow up call where they didn't get the job is going to either be an emotional trainwreck, confrontational, argumentative. So they'd rather not deal with it. I've in the past been willing to give that feedback to help a candidate that didn't get the role, and yes I got blasted because the candidate is hurt or confused or whatever.


The simpler thing would be a more personalized email. You didn't get the job, the candidate that we went with had more experience in this area or whatever.



But again, most recruiters and HR coordinators are what I would literally call sausage factory workers, they get the resumes' in do basic vetting and pass them on to the hiring authority either after doing a basic 5 to 10 minute vetting interview, or in some cases before to give the hiring authority a target list.

[Bleeding Red]

I often wonder how much fear of litigation factors into replies.

No one is going to come out and say "you're too old" or "we are under diversity pressure" or "you won't fit in with our all-female team", but I feel these are factors.

I did apply for a job where the company was all female top to bottom, and sure enough the position was filled by a woman.

I was asked in an interview "how would you feel if your direct report was a woman?" My only answer was that I had never had a direct report that was male.

[InglewoodFan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

But again, most recruiters and HR coordinators are what I would literally call sausage factory workers, they get the resumes' in do basic vetting and pass them on to the hiring authority either after doing a basic 5 to 10 minute vetting interview, or in some cases before to give the hiring authority a target list.

I have to say, I've spent the last few days working with a superlative third party recruiter. She tracked me down on LinkedIn for a role I would have never thought to look for but am super interested in. Since then she has been very prompt with all communication, friendly and informative on the screening interview, gave good feedback on my resume. It really seems like she is putting me forward to the client with a decent amount of enthusiasm. Just a breath of fresh air.

I'm very excited about the role, it could be completely career changing. But even if I'm not successful, it will have been a very good experience and I will have given it my best shot.

[CaptainCrunch]

I need advice.


I think a lot of you know my situation, I'm working on two contracts. One as a advisor to startups, and doing BD and network expansion for a company that works with startups on their product development side. I usually put about a half day in per day.



I picked up a second contract doing recruiting for a large recruiting company with various projects.


The recruiting company approached me with a full time role as an employee.


Here's my quandry.


On one hand, going back into the employee game offers a lot of stability, makes my life easier from and accounting/finance side of things as someone else does all my taxes and such . I can go back to some normalicy of hours. Because of the urgency of the roles I'm recruiting for I've been working pretty much 6 days a week since November.



However


I love the first contract in the tech startup world. I love building the network and meeting interesting people and helping them with their product development and market and everything, its different work every day nearly. I've learned a ton in the startup space. With contracting I can pick my own hours. Because I don't have any interviews today I'm taking a nice Friday afternoon off, I don't report to anyone, and I'm hot shotted into tough recruiting projects.


I would take a financial hit. The salary would be a bit below what I'm making on contract, but again, I would stop worrying about taxes and paying for my own benefits etc.



I'm really torn, I love the independence of the contract world, but there's no guarantee of work, so next week the recruiting stuff could dry up (Not likely but you get what I'm saying).


I told the recruiting company that I would talk to them on Monday, I should at least explore it right, see if I can negotiate or try to come up with a creative solution.


Don't get me wrong, it is a good problem to have, but man.

[InglewoodFan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I need advice.



On one hand, going back into the employee game offers a lot of stability, makes my life easier from and accounting/finance side of things as someone else does all my taxes and such . I can go back to some normalicy of hours. Because of the urgency of the roles I'm recruiting for I've been working pretty much 6 days a week since November.

Right there with you. To me, the quandary of my situation is I love the variety and opportunity of contract work. It's just the accounting/uncertainty bit that stresses me out.

Probably not so much in your case, but one realization I just had is even though my rate is $x, my billed hours were about 70% last year so the spread to a staff rate isn't much at all.

We've been through some skinny times, but the bills always get paid. It does stress my wife out more than me I think, she'd worry less if I was in a 9-5 like I was when we met.

Do you have any sense of where your industry is going? From my limited outlook, I'm seeing a lot of uncertainty in how work is going to go in the future after COVID and WFH. Are staffed up firms going to still be a thing? Are there going to be more "free agents"? It's getting tough to tell.

And the million dollar question - any chance of equity/participation in the start up firm? I'm always looking at chances to have a bit of skin in the game.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't think the staffing firms are going away, especially not the good ones, maybe the single shingle ones will fade out. The firm I work with does a lot of mass hiring on the high end.



The equity discussion came up, and is something that is open to discussion, that's another interesting place to go, but startups are inherently unstable.

[8sPOT]

I miss the freedom of contracting...a lot. But with a kid with me half the time, and child support, being an employee seems like the wise choice. Otherwise I don't think I'd think twice about contracting again. I agree its much better for networking, and expanding your breadth of knowledge/experience.

And you don't have to sit down with your leader to discuss goals, and development ad nasueam. As a contractor you get your work done, get paid, go home. I found it way less stressful, apart from the potential of not being extended etc.

[RichieRich]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I need advice.

The recruiting company approached me with a full time role as an employee.
Here's my quandry.

On one hand, going back into the employee game offers a lot of stability, makes my life easier from and accounting/finance side of things as someone else does all my taxes and such . I can go back to some normalicy of hours. Because of the urgency of the roles I'm recruiting for I've been working pretty much 6 days a week since November.

Don't get me wrong, it is a good problem to have, but man.

1. Go through with the interview and recruitment process. Maybe it'll reveal something about the role that makes it easier to decide. *you* are interviewing and evaluating them just as much as they are you. The fit goes both ways.
2. Can you keep that pace up? What if the hours drop? or something in life causes those hours to drop? This is a tough one. If your other half has stability with a staff role and benefits then a contract role can be gravy. But if you're sole income earner... stability can reduce a TON of stress.

[RichieRich]

Had 2 second interviews this week. First one is already checking references, and I suspect might want a quick decision. Second one will only notify of decision next Wed/Thurs. Would be amazing to have 2 choices... First one is contract for 1yr fixed role; 2nd is staff.

[CaptainCrunch]

The greatest joy is having options to measure. Great news for this thread, best of luck, keep us in the 9/11.

[RichieRich]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The greatest joy is having options to measure. Great news for this thread, best of luck, keep us in the 9/11.

I'm living this situation:
https://www.wayup.com/guide/tell-emp...ng-job-offers/
except the 2nd folks haven't actually offered me the role yet (I'm cautiously optimistic), but the first folks want a decision ASAP and don't want to wait more than a day before starting reference checks on their #2 candidate, BUT the first folks are my preference (even if they'll likely pay ~10% less... it's a stress / personality thing). It's a very delicate and awkward situation, and not purely about the $$$.