[News] 5 Flames file for arbitration (Lindholm, Jankowski, Hathaway, Kulak, Rittich)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

There's a good chance that they could have started at 9

Oh, no doubt. It's an addictive game.

[Fire]

According to my salary guesses the only way they could sign both Lindholm and Hanifin to long term deals (5-7yrs) would be by buying out Brouwer or trading Stone for a draft pick.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/786900

I don't think they will trade Stone, because Treliving covets the depth. The Flames were lucky last season with the lack of defensemen getting injured. Having Stone around in case Hamonic or Brodie gets hurt would be huge.

I would put the chances of buying out Brouwer at greater than 50%, but the Flames have a lot of time to decide. They will have a much clearer picture of their cap situation in a month.

[jlh2640]

Let us get these guys signed asap

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Hanifin is ineligible for arbitration.


Eventually? That is the hope. This season? Not likely. If Jankowski gets there eventually that would be fantastic, but he is not yet a second line centre. Not even close.


EVERY player wants more than what has been offered by their club. Arbitration itself does not indicate anything about ongoing negotiations. As has been pointed out already a few times in this thread, it is one of the very few rights that RFAs retain under the current CBA, which is why tonnes of them trigger it when they can.

Is Hanifin the same as Hamilton was when the Flames got him?

[AC]

Wes Gilbertson:
According to #Flames GM Brad Treliving, team wants to go long-term on contract for restricted free agent Elias Lindholm. Both sides seem to like that idea.

[TheKurgan]

I want Lindholm, Hanifin and Jankowski locked up long term. Lindholm and Hanifin 5-7 years, maybe 3-5 for Jankowski. I am indifferent about the rest, Hathaway, Kulak and Rittich are average NHL players and very replaceable in my opinion.

[TheKurgan]

Originally Posted by Fire

According to my salary guesses the only way they could sign both Lindholm and Hanifin to long term deals (5-7yrs) would be by buying out Brouwer or trading Stone for a draft pick.

I agree, with the forward additions we have made I really don't see a place on this roster for Brouwer - he needs to be bought out. Otherwise the Flames will be looking at trading Frolik or Stone for picks, both have Modified No Trade Clauses so it will be tough to get good return, if any.

Frolik and Stone are good bottom pairing players so keeping them is a way better option than holding on to Brouwer.

Get it done Tre!

[Snuffleupagus]

I highly doubt Hanifin will get any more than a 2-3 year offer and under $4m per.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

I want Lindholm, Hanifin and Jankowski locked up long term. Lindholm and Hanifin 5-7 years, maybe 3-5 for Jankowski. I am indifferent about the rest, Hathaway, Kulak and Rittich are average NHL players and very replaceable in my opinion.

Will probably only be able to lock 1 up long term without shedding salary (buyout or cap dump).

[Roof-Daddy]

I can see them bridging Hanifin for 2 or 3 years.

It has to be either that or the max 7 IMO.

3 year bridge, then depending how those 3 years go an 8 year extension. He's a flame until he's 32 barring trade and then is a UFA for the first time in his career.

Or..

7 year extension at around $5 million per. The he's a UFA at 28 and can cash in on one more big contract, either with the Flames or on the open market.

My preference is the 2nd option, because then he is likely cost controlled through his prime years.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I would be surprised if the Flames couldn’t dump Brouwer in a trade with salary retained vs having a buyout penalty for 4 years.

Plus it's financially cheaper in real dollars to trade Brouwer @50% retained than it is to buy him out. 4.5 million versus 6 million (buy out costs) when comparing apples to apples. However, that doesn't take into account the hardship of adding an asset to make such a trade happen. If they add Klimchuck, for example, to sweeten the deal, what's the financial value?

I would argue it's more complicated than just the 1.5 million difference if you account for Klimchucks salary over the years, the scouts salary, cost of development camps, and AHL coaches.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I highly doubt Hanifin will get any more than a 2-3 year offer and under $4m per.

Why?

Hamilton had posted identical stats at this stage of his career (while being a year older) and got 6 years at 5.75M per.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

For me, it isn't an antiquated concept - it isn't about enforcers. It is about the ability to play defence.


You are going to lean on your top offensive stars to generate goals - and these are in the top 6 for the most part, and top 9 for deep teams.



One of those lines is going to be a strong defensive line usually, and the really good 4th lines in the league help in this regard. I think you should have 4th line players that can PK and help in that regard, so that your better offensive players have fresher legs.


Mangiapane probably wouldn't help with that much.


I do think (and agree) with rolling 4 lines, but Mangiapane will then end up getting sheltered in the defensive situations, right?


I think for a handful of games, it is probably beneficial to have a player like Mangiapane get his ears wet playing on the 4th line, but it shouldn't go beyond that. He needs to either be moved up the lineup and provided with more opportunity in offensive situations, or sent to the AHL and allowing his offensive creativity (and confidence) to continue developing.


I just think the team is going to ride their top offensive players more, and utilize that 4th line for help on the PK to take some tough minutes (Stajan will be missed in his ability to do that) and allow your more offensive stars to have fresher legs. That 4th line absolutely should be contributing on the score-sheet as well, but defence is where I believe they should be spending the a large portion of their minutes to help the team.

Meh, I'm sure Mangiapane or Klimchuck would be fine defensively on the 4th line or on the PK. These guys are professional hockey players and have spent two years in the AHL. Also, elite offensive players clearly think the game well and adapt quickly. They'll need to learn it anyways, so why not during a coaching change when Brouwer has little advantage over them in terms of knowing the systems?

I think if there's any defensive advantage to having Brouwer on the 4th line, it's marginal at best. He really was terrible and the stats back that up.

[Roof-Daddy]

When we traded for Hamilton he already had a 40+ point season under his belt.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I can see them bridging Hanifin for 2 or 3 years.

It has to be either that or the max 7 IMO.

3 year bridge, then depending how those 3 years go an 8 year extension. He's a flame until he's 32 barring trade and then is a UFA for the first time in his career.

I'd go with the 2 year bridge. To coincide with Brodie/Stone/Hamonic deals expiring so we can use some of that money to finance his extension.

I'm more concerned about finding enough dough to lockdown Tkachuk next year (while finding a replacement for Smith)... we might have to bridge him a year to get the Brouwer/Frolik money (depending how how the cap escalates).

[powderjunkie]

I'd rather bridge deal Hanifin and make him earn it than buy out Brouwer. If he warrants 6.75 in a couple years, that will be a great problem to have.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Fire

According to my salary guesses the only way they could sign both Lindholm and Hanifin to long term deals (5-7yrs) would be by buying out Brouwer or trading Stone for a draft pick.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/786900

I don't think they will trade Stone, because Treliving covets the depth. The Flames were lucky last season with the lack of defensemen getting injured. Having Stone around in case Hamonic or Brodie gets hurt would be huge.

I would put the chances of buying out Brouwer at greater than 50%, but the Flames have a lot of time to decide. They will have a much clearer picture of their cap situation in a month.

And in some cases your numbers were a bit conservative. If the Flames try to sign Jankowski for more than 2 years, he's definitely getting more than 1.5 million. I coukd see him getting 1.9 million at 2 years, and about 3 mill for a 4 year term.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I'd rather bridge deal Hanifin and make him earn it than buy out Brouwer. If he warrants 6.75 in a couple years, that will be a great problem to have.

I don't understand the logic here. Bridging a player doesn't capitalize on the players appreciated value. There's a reason so many GMs are handing out long term contracts to young RFAs: the player is worth more than their salary and AAV at years 5-8. But when you re-sign them in their late 20's, their value depreciates because they're not worth their salary or caphit in their later years.

Buying out Brouwer cost the team 6 million. If Hanifin cost 6 million for 8 years, those last three years are easily worth more than Brouwer's buyout. You have to think, Hanifins next contract could be 10-12 million one if he pans out to being a top pairing D-man. That's nearly double his worth!

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

When we traded for Hamilton he already had a 40+ point season under his belt.

Draft +1: OHL
Draft +2: 16 points
Draft +3: 25 points
Draft +4: 42 points

vs.

Draft +1: 22 points
Draft +2: 29 points
Draft +3: 32 points

Both scored 83 points through their first 3 pro seasons, and Noah Hanifin didn't go back for an additional year of development at the jr. level.

Dougie Hamilton scored 25 points while playing with:
65.8 CHARA,ZDENO - HAMILTON,DOUGIE
19.1 HAMILTON,DOUGIE - SEIDENBERG,DENNIS

Dougie Hamilton scored those 42 points while playing with:
56.5 CHARA,ZDENO - HAMILTON,DOUGIE
24.6 HAMILTON,DOUGIE - SEIDENBERG,DENNIS

Noah Hanifin put up 32 points this past season while playing with:
55.3 HANIFIN,NOAH - VAN RIEMSDYK,TREVOR
22.7 FAULK,JUSTIN - HANIFIN,NOAH

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Draft +1: OHL
Draft +2: 16 points
Draft +3: 25 points
Draft +4: 42 points

vs.

Draft +1: 22 points
Draft +2: 29 points
Draft +3: 32 points

Both scored 83 points through their first 3 pro seasons, and Noah Hanifin didn't go back for an additional year of development at the jr. level.

Dougie Hamilton scored 25 points while playing with:
65.8 CHARA,ZDENO - HAMILTON,DOUGIE
19.1 HAMILTON,DOUGIE - SEIDENBERG,DENNIS

Dougie Hamilton scored those 42 points while playing with:
56.5 CHARA,ZDENO - HAMILTON,DOUGIE
24.6 HAMILTON,DOUGIE - SEIDENBERG,DENNIS

Noah Hanifin put up 32 points this past season while playing with:
55.3 HANIFIN,NOAH - VAN RIEMSDYK,TREVOR
22.7 FAULK,JUSTIN - HANIFIN,NOAH

I agree that Hanifin is trending in a similar direction as Hamilton, but in terms of his actual contract the fact that he has not yet scored +40 points is significant. The potential is certainly there, but I expect he actually has to hit it before negotiating off of Hamilton's deal.