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Old 11-05-2019, 01:00 PM   #1
Joborule
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Default Deerfoot Trail Improvements

You guys probably already seen the electronic signs advertising it if you've driven on Deerfoot, but there's currently public engagement on the proposed long term interchanges for Deerfoot Trail. Open houses upcoming, and can currently provide your opinions online.

https://engage.calgary.ca/deerfoot
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Old 11-05-2019, 01:18 PM   #2
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I think they really, really need to reduce the number of on and off ramps in close proximity to each other. There is no way you're going to enjoy smooth traffic flow when you have people both sharing the same lanes to decelerating to 50kph to exit and acceleraing to 100kph to get with the flow of traffic. McKnight/64th/Beddington are all way too close to each other. Look at how fast traffic speeds up even during rush hour once you get past though 3.
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Old 11-05-2019, 02:17 PM   #3
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i saw that they were holding this on social media. also read that they were thinking about three new water crossings for deerfoot - not sure where or why.

my thoughts are stop designing roads that start with three lanes and narrow to two then open up again to three and then narrow again - while i am no traffic engineer, to me the narrowing creates an artificial bottle neck - things would likely flow better with no lane reduction.

Deerfoot also likely needs some left hand merges, which are generally not popular in canada (i have seen some in san diego and minneapolis - they do tkae some time to get used to) - but you would need major onramp designs

anways, given the current finances around here, i am not sure where the money to do something will come from.

i also feel like this request is like asking homer to design a car though. but i am sure that there will be a couple of takeaways that the engineers did not think of.


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You guys probably already seen the electronic signs advertising it if you've driven on Deerfoot, but there's currently public engagement on the proposed long term interchanges for Deerfoot Trail. Open houses upcoming, and can currently provide your opinions online.

https://engage.calgary.ca/deerfoot
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Old 11-05-2019, 06:37 PM   #4
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my thoughts are stop designing roads that start with three lanes and narrow to two then open up again to three and then narrow again - while i am no traffic engineer, to me the narrowing creates an artificial bottle neck - things would likely flow better with no lane reduction.

Deerfoot also likely needs some left hand merges, which are generally not popular in canada (i have seen some in san diego and minneapolis - they do tkae some time to get used to) - but you would need major onramp designs
In a perfect world you have unlimited money and space to do what you're suggesting. Money is usually the reason those bottlenecks exist, though. Think of places like Anderson, where they probably saved a ton of money having only two lanes in each direction over the bridges. They also got 20 to 30 years of useful life out of that configuration before it became a real issue. Seems like a good value proposition to me. They did the analysis and the math shows that it was good for a long time for traffic so that would be the likely result for implementing them.

Much like cloverleaf interchanges, left hand merges are no longer recommended anywhere. It has to be an exceptional situation (very high cost or land acquisition to avoid a left hand merge) to require them now. For example, in Calgary they're spending a lot of money to get rid of the ones on Crowchild at the Bow River (though they added one on Memorial to make Crowchild flow better). It's unlikely that you'll see them suggested.

Asking the people who use a road every single day for feedback is good practice. It's likely to reveal some things the engineers could consider.
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:44 AM   #5
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Moved the posts into a new thread.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:02 AM   #6
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Future of Deerfoot...


https://twitter.com/user/status/1191295205187686400
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:06 AM   #7
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Tolls on the parasites.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:12 AM   #8
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I was just looking at the Deerfoot/Glenmore plan. Greatly improves a few things, but will remove a fair amount of access:
Glenmore to/from Heritage
NB Blackfoot to EB Glenmore
Also adds another light onto Blackfoot.

The other ambitious one is Anderson/Southland/Bow Bottom.
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Old 11-06-2019, 11:43 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by ken0042 View Post
I was just looking at the Deerfoot/Glenmore plan. Greatly improves a few things, but will remove a fair amount of access:
Glenmore to/from Heritage
NB Blackfoot to EB Glenmore
Also adds another light onto Blackfoot.

The other ambitious one is Anderson/Southland/Bow Bottom.
WTF is a 'Basket Weave?' I'm looking at this and if they're thinking what I think they're thinking that looks like a nightmare?

Can we get someone who knows more about this to explain it?

Because that stretch of Deerfoot at the moment is a Debacle of Monumental Proportions.
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Old 11-06-2019, 11:44 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by ken0042 View Post
I was just looking at the Deerfoot/Glenmore plan. Greatly improves a few things, but will remove a fair amount of access:
Glenmore to/from Heritage
NB Blackfoot to EB Glenmore
Also adds another light onto Blackfoot.

The other ambitious one is Anderson/Southland/Bow Bottom.
There will still be access, it has just been changed.
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:06 PM   #11
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Interesting that they will add a NB exit onto Beddington. It seems a little unnecessary given you can just drive south to 64th and then proceed to NB Deerfoot from there. I would be curious to know the numbers of how many people actually even do that to begin with.
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:07 PM   #12
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There will still be access, it has just been changed.
Thanks- missed that at first.

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WTF is a 'Basket Weave?'
Basically where one road goes over the other. There are a couple at 162nd and MacLeod. Building an extra bridge is expensive, but in many cases is required to keep vehicles moving.
Edit- like here:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.90480...7i13312!8i6656
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:28 PM   #13
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Thanks- missed that at first.



Basically where one road goes over the other. There are a couple at 162nd and MacLeod. Building an extra bridge is expensive, but in many cases is required to keep vehicles moving.
Edit- like here:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.90480...7i13312!8i6656
That's a relatively simple solution to the Southland / Bow Bottom / Anderson section that... The main problem is the intersecting of decelerating cars exiting with accelerating cars trying to merge. By separating them with a basket weave, the bottleneck is all but eliminated. Anyone familiar with larger freeways, like the 401 in TO can compare the idea to the service roads, where the main through lanes are left to flow freely while the exiting and merging traffic is left to interact at lower speeds separate from the main highway... It would work very well at that section.
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:30 PM   #14
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Interesting that they will add a NB exit onto Beddington. It seems a little unnecessary given you can just drive south to 64th and then proceed to NB Deerfoot from there. I would be curious to know the numbers of how many people actually even do that to begin with.

Spoiler!

I assume it's all about the shipping and logistics enters there. All those changes look to provide a lot better access to the area southbound and northbound, thoguh I'm not sure it is worth the expenditures.


Spoiler!

Not really sure I like what they have at McKnight. It changes that left turn only light into a full intersection, all to get rid of a merge ramp? So they force another stop presumably to help traffic get from the right merge lane across to turn left on Airport Road.
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:39 PM   #15
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I also suggested they should turn 16th ave into a giant roundabout. It's already got the bridges and configuration, just remove the multitude of lights and reconfigure entrances/exits. But that's probably to Euro for them.


Ideally in the future you could add a basic bridge across the entire span with 2 lanes each direction, no exits for straight through, and then the roundabout only has to handle exchange traffic.
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:43 PM   #16
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I don’t drive Deerfoot a ton in the south but the memorial interchange has to be one of the most Mickey Mouse major intersections in North America. Being a feeder from Deerfoot to downtown makes it even worse.
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:48 PM   #17
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Spoiler!

I assume it's all about the shipping and logistics enters there. All those changes look to provide a lot better access to the area southbound and northbound, thoguh I'm not sure it is worth the expenditures.


Spoiler!

Not really sure I like what they have at McKnight. It changes that left turn only light into a full intersection, all to get rid of a merge ramp? So they force another stop presumably to help traffic get from the right merge lane across to turn left on Airport Road.

I think the logistics companies all have access from North-South access to Deerfoot from 64th and Airport Trail. Beddington seems like a waste of resouces, IMO.
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:49 PM   #18
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I also suggested they should turn 16th ave into a giant roundabout. It's already got the bridges and configuration, just remove the multitude of lights and reconfigure entrances/exits. But that's probably to Euro for them.


Ideally in the future you could add a basic bridge across the entire span with 2 lanes each direction, no exits for straight through, and then the roundabout only has to handle exchange traffic.
Set up some stands (lots of room around this area) and charge admission to watch for the first few months. Sell out crowds.
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:57 PM   #19
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I think the logistics companies all have access from North-South access to Deerfoot from 64th and Airport Trail. Beddington seems like a waste of resouces, IMO.
Right, but southbound you have, what 3 lights go go through? Northbound you have 2. Plus the added time, idling stop and go etc. Not great for the environment. I'm not sure it is worth it though. I'd be OK if they kept it really simple and just added a NB entrance to Deerfoot from the east side. Keep the SB bridge as an option for the distant future.
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:00 PM   #20
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