Thinking back to Calgary vs Colorado I don't see how a guy like Lucic would have made the slightest difference, do you?
It’s just as much about ditching Neal as it is about getting Lucic. I don’t think Lucic would make a huge difference but it’d be hard to Dube or Mangiapane to bring less than Neal did, because Neal brought absolutely nothing.
The term addition by subtraction is overused on this forum but I think it applies here. Pretty much anyone else we have could do more with Neal’s ice time than Neal did. Neal was literally dragging lines down with his unengaged, slow, soft play.
Good riddance!
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 07-20-2019 at 03:48 PM.
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I don't know about indictment, but this article in the Athletic by Duhatschek suggests Neal never found a fit with the team:
Quote:
If you ever wandered into the Calgary Flames’ dressing room last season, looking for James Neal, you’d find him stashed away in the far corner, the very last locker stall in the room. It’s not exactly where you’d expect to go searching for a player who was originally signed to provide a leadership voice and a winning pedigree to Calgary, based on Neal consecutive Stanley Cup final trips over the past two seasons.
For whatever reason – chemistry, a poor fit with potential first-line mates Johnny Gaudreau and Sean Monahan or simply the inability at the age of 31 to rebound from two long seasons and two short summers – Neal was never a fit in his now one-and-only season with the Flames. He was supposed to be a central piece in the emerging leadership group of the team.
Instead, he was a peripheral figure, literally and figuratively, on a team that won the Western Conference regular-season title, without any meaningful contributions from their expensive free-agent add
It’s not about being right or wrong, opinions are always going to be subject to assumptions which may not play out.
It’s about holding people accountable for sprouting rubbish all season. The frustrating thing those of us who believed this was a bad signing from the start, was the countless BS arguments used to justify the signing. Now those BS arguments are exposed and the chickens have come home to roost.
I could post all the quotes stating (for a fact) that Neal was a great dressing room guy...but I’ll hold off (for now)
How about you just hold off period
Good god give it a rest
What a sad display for someone keeping score over what hockey fans post on the internet
Yeah you were right
Do you want a trophy?
I’ll pay for it and ship it to you. Just let me know what you want written on the plaque
I figured a side benefit of this deal would be not having to read you spout about James Neal any more
Sadly not the case
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Hahaha, ok CanadaMatt, you go ahead and tally up a spreadsheet of times that everybody was wrong. I look forward to being at the top of your list.
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How about you just hold off period
Good god give it a rest
What a sad display for someone keeping score over what hockey fans post on the internet
Yeah you were right
Do you want a trophy?
I’ll pay for it and ship it to you. Just let me know what you want written on the plaque
I figured a side benefit of this deal would be not having to read you spout about James Neal any more
Sadly not the case
Again it’s not about being right or wrong, it’s about those “usual suspects” on this forum who (for the better part of 12 months) have made up absolute nonsense, passed it off as fact and now start pissing and moaning when they get called out on it when it’s proven to be nonsense.
But if deliberately missing the point makes you feel better, then you do you.
Last edited by CanadaMatt; 07-20-2019 at 03:54 PM.
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There’s something odd about the Flames brass giving up on Neal after one season - not their usual M.O. They were willing to take on a worse contract to facilitate the move. It’s all so bizarre.
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You're expecting him to more than double his production.
Didn't Garnet Hathaway go from four goals to eleven last year playing with Mangiapane and Ryan? Hathaway, who unlike Lucic, had no business hitting double digit goals while Lucic has only fallen short of double digits once in a full season.
Quote:
With Sam Bennett. A player that got 14 assists last year.
Fun fact, Sam Bennett's 5v5 First Assist rate of 0.75 would have ranked second on the Edmonton Oilers last year (800+ minutes). Now Draisaitl at 0.74 isn't meaningfully behind but point is, Bennett is a playmaker. Poor second assist totals don't change that fact. Even Claude Giroux has had seasons where the second assists were not there
Quote:
And with Derek Ryan, I guess? soyouresayingtheresachance.jpg
The Mangiapane/Ryan combination catapulted Hathaway to a huge payday this offseason. A year ago I didn't think Hathaway even deserved a qualifying offer as an RFA.
Any way you look at it, his linemates have gotten quicker, more skilled, younger.
And the profound improvement in defensemen - Giordano, Brodie, Hanifin, Kylington, Andersson, Valimaki... this should not be overlooked especially for a guy like Lucic who likes to set up netfront and bang in garbage goals and tips.
Hockey's a team sport and Lucic is a decent bottom six forward who is moving to a much better team that has a vacancy for a big body like him in their bottom six.
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 07-20-2019 at 04:02 PM.
There’s something odd about the Flames brass giving up on Neal after one season - not their usual M.O. They were willing to take on a worse contract to facilitate the move. It’s all so bizarre.
Seems pretty obvious amid the speculation that Neal and the coach didn't get along.
Neal obviously didn't want to be a Flame anymore and the feeling was obviously mutual.
Thanks to his #### season the Flames either had to give up a valuable asset to get rid of him, or do a swap of bad contracts.
Darren HaynesVerified account @DarrenWHaynes5h5 hours ago
For those who dislike the Neal for Lucic trade, does your opinion change if you view it this way: Lucic replaces Garnet Hathaway, Dillon Dube replaces Neal. Because deployment-wise, I’d suggest that’s one possibility for how things could unfold.
I'd like to see:
Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Mangiapane-Monahan-RW (Would love to see Tyler Johnson here)
Dube-Backlund-Bennett
Lucic-Ryan-Czarnik
Jankowski
I'm more excited about Mangiapane and Dube, I feel like putting these two in bigger roles will be the real upgrades we get up front. Lucic isn't replacing Neal, but the way he'll be slotted will allow our other young players to take Neal's minutes.
Darren HaynesVerified account @DarrenWHaynes5h5 hours ago
For those who dislike the Neal for Lucic trade, does your opinion change if you view it this way: Lucic replaces Garnet Hathaway, Dillon Dube replaces Neal. Because deployment-wise, I’d suggest that’s one possibility for how things could unfold.
I'd like to see:
Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Mangiapane-Monahan-RW (Would love to see Tyler Johnson here)
Dube-Backlund-Bennett
Lucic-Ryan-Czarnik
Jankowski
I'm more excited about Mangiapane and Dube, I feel like putting these two in bigger roles will be the real upgrades we get up front. Lucic isn't replacing Neal, but the way he'll be slotted will allow our other young players to take Neal's minutes.
I don’t see Hathaway and Lucic as similar players. So this is a downgrade in my opinion.
Hathaway is high energy, I don’t see Lucic bringing that
Last edited by CanadaMatt; 07-20-2019 at 04:05 PM.
I could care less about the 3rd round pick from an actual trade value perspective (since 3rds a relateively worthless). What I think it is much more valuable is the psychological impact it will have on the Oilers brass and fans.
The Oilers GM/coaches are going to give Neal a very long leash with the big 3. Even longer than Lucic got in his 2nd year with the Oilers (when he showed he was nothing more than a bottom 6 player). Even if the Neal experiment is not working and dragging their production down, they will keep forcing it because they want the PR win over Calgary. A 3rd round pick pales in comparison to the propaganda boost they can sell their fans with a "Neal scored 23 goals, Lucic only scored 10. Take that Flamers!"
But what happens if the Oilers gift Neal 1st line and powerplay time, and he only puts up 15 goals. They could end up wasting another year of McDavid and Draisaitl. Heck, even if Neal put ups Chaisson-esque numbers, that will not be enough to move the needle towards being a contending team.
If Neal gets relegated to the bottom 6, then they trade almost suredly becomes a minor win for the Flames. If both players are bottom 6 paperweights, I will take the guy that makes 5.25 million over the guy who makes 6.5 million any day.
I will eat my words if Neal scores 40 goals and carries the Oilers to greatness. But the odds of that happening are incredibly low.
The more I think about this trade, the more I like it.
Darren HaynesVerified account @DarrenWHaynes5h5 hours ago
For those who dislike the Neal for Lucic trade, does your opinion change if you view it this way: Lucic replaces Garnet Hathaway, Dillon Dube replaces Neal. Because deployment-wise, I’d suggest that’s one possibility for how things could unfold.
I'd like to see:
Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Mangiapane-Monahan-RW (Would love to see Tyler Johnson here)
Dube-Backlund-Bennett
Lucic-Ryan-Czarnik
Jankowski
I'm more excited about Mangiapane and Dube, I feel like putting these two in bigger roles will be the real upgrades we get up front. Lucic isn't replacing Neal, but the way he'll be slotted will allow our other young players to take Neal's minutes.
IMO Lindholm isn't going from worst player on the top line, to top line C. I could see him on the second line though.
I'd be floored if Lucic scores 11 goals, so that's one area where I very much doubt he replaces what Hathaway gave us.
2018-19 Hathaway - 11 goals on 14.3% shooting
Hathaway prior to last year was a career 5.0% shooter
2017-18 Lucic - 10 goals on 6.8% shooting
Lucic is a career 13.5% shooter.
I think Lucic can not only bring what Hathaway brought in Hathaway's role, but it wouldn't be a shooting percentage mirage like Hathaway's jackpot season. Now consider Lucic will likely see PP2 time beside Andersson, Backlund, and Bennett (and Brodie/Hanifin).
Last season is a writeoff, he was playing with a center who I would have sworn retired three years ago and another winger who plays the exact same style. Mangiapane and Ryan are two players who offset what Lucic does/doesn't, and Lucic on paper offsets what they do/don't.
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 07-20-2019 at 04:20 PM.
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