[News] Stockton Heat to play in Calgary - Page 21 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Mindtravellee · 03-06-2021, 08:10 AM

For any promotion of any new player, I hope they are given at least 3 games in a row for the experience and to settle. It took Phillips a few games to get up to speed from WHL to AHL, but once there... takeoff!

Cali Panthers Fan · 03-06-2021, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

I'm pretty sure he can't, or he'd be in the NHL already. Leivo's role is to play the physical game and retrieve pucks. His role is not to be pretty or make slick plays. His job is to get pucks to the skill players, make room, and wreak some havoc in front of the net. I don't see a 5'7, 150 pound player doing that.

As timbit has pointed out, the jump from the AHL to the NHL is quite significant. When you're getting a chance to make the jump from the AHL to the NHL its because you are the best player on your team. But you are making the jump to a league where every player was the best player on their team. You are now competing against guys that are all as good or better than you, and all of them are bigger and faster than anyone you've played against. So the advantage you have at the one level does not automatically translate to the next. You may be able to water bug it at the AHL level, but that does not mean it will translate the NHL level.

It's an interesting mix, but I honestly believe that second line gets its head caved in. Seriously, who retrieves pucks in that scenario? You want to stop that line dead in its tracks, trap at the blueline and make them dump and chase. Monahan then has to win the puck battles and you take away his greatest strength of being a sniper. You just can't play two guys that small together in the NHL as they will get neutralized by size. They'll spend the whole game without or chasing the puck, or blowing snow just inside the blueline. If Phillips is the answer, then the question is who do you call up after you trade away Gaudreau?

Yeah, but he's not really done that a whole lot. He's been pretty ineffective for most of the season, but has done better the last week or so. I don't disagree that you need a guy for puck retrieval on that line, but perhaps they play a different game that is purely about possession. I know you need to get the puck first, but it's not like Gaudreau has never stripped a puck, and that Monahan is completely unable to get a puck.

In an ideal world, Leivo is the guy to play that role, but he hasn't delivered so far. Time to look at other organizational assets when the veterans can't do the job.

Seriously, are you telling me that Matthew Phillips couldn't manage 1 goal/2 assists for 3 points, a -4, and a shooting percentage of 3.7%. The guy can play, it's just a question of how much he can do at the NHL level. I'm pretty sure he's equal to or above replacement level players like Leivo.

powderjunkie · 03-06-2021, 10:43 AM

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Gaudreau - Monahan - Ryan
Lucic - Backlund - Dube
Bennett-Ruzicka-Phillips

4LW could be anybody, but I'd be interested to see that line. Would be easy to swap Ryan with any of those 4th liners as the situation dictates (after a PK).

This only gives 4 PK F's, but maybe it's time to give Dube a look there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

I'm pretty sure he can't, or he'd be in the NHL already. Leivo's role is to play the physical game and retrieve pucks. His role is not to be pretty or make slick plays. His job is to get pucks to the skill players, make room, and wreak some havoc in front of the net. I don't see a 5'7, 150 pound player doing that.

As timbit has pointed out, the jump from the AHL to the NHL is quite significant. When you're getting a chance to make the jump from the AHL to the NHL its because you are the best player on your team. But you are making the jump to a league where every player was the best player on their team. You are now competing against guys that are all as good or better than you, and all of them are bigger and faster than anyone you've played against. So the advantage you have at the one level does not automatically translate to the next. You may be able to water bug it at the AHL level, but that does not mean it will translate the NHL level.

It's an interesting mix, but I honestly believe that second line gets its head caved in. Seriously, who retrieves pucks in that scenario? You want to stop that line dead in its tracks, trap at the blueline and make them dump and chase. Monahan then has to win the puck battles and you take away his greatest strength of being a sniper. You just can't play two guys that small together in the NHL as they will get neutralized by size. They'll spend the whole game without or chasing the puck, or blowing snow just inside the blueline. If Phillips is the answer, then the question is who do you call up after you trade away Gaudreau?

Because this org has never irrationally prioritized 'safe' vets.

It was probably the right move to keep the AHL hopeful gems down while the dumpster-fire was raging, but hopefully now it will be a better environment.

Geeoff · 03-06-2021, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Yeah, but he's not really done that a whole lot. He's been pretty ineffective for most of the season, but has done better the last week or so. I don't disagree that you need a guy for puck retrieval on that line, but perhaps they play a different game that is purely about possession. I know you need to get the puck first, but it's not like Gaudreau has never stripped a puck, and that Monahan is completely unable to get a puck.

In an ideal world, Leivo is the guy to play that role, but he hasn't delivered so far. Time to look at other organizational assets when the veterans can't do the job.

Seriously, are you telling me that Matthew Phillips couldn't manage 1 goal/2 assists for 3 points, a -4, and a shooting percentage of 3.7%. The guy can play, it's just a question of how much he can do at the NHL level. I'm pretty sure he's equal to or above replacement level players like Leivo.

To me, Leivo is almost indistinguishable from Austin Czarnik. They're out there playing solid technical hockey but not really accomplishing anything.

Rick M. · 03-06-2021, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Gaudreau - Monahan - Ryan
Lucic - Backlund - Dube
Bennett-Ruzicka-Phillips

4LW could be anybody, but I'd be interested to see that line. Would be easy to swap Ryan with any of those 4th liners as the situation dictates (after a PK).

This only gives 4 PK F's, but maybe it's time to give Dube a look there?

Because this org has never irrationally prioritized 'safe' vets.

It was probably the right move to keep the AHL hopeful gems down while the dumpster-fire was raging, but hopefully now it will be a better environment.

Dube was a forechecking demon in the World Juniors, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he could be effective on the PK. He might score some shorthanded goals, too.

Enoch Root · 03-06-2021, 12:05 PM

If I were inserting Phillips into the lineup, I would do it this way:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Leivo
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Dube
Lucic - Backlund - Mangiapane
Bennett - Ryan - Phillips

That would be the most skilled 4th line we've had in some time, without disrupting the other lines

Gaudreau is a Ninja · 03-06-2021, 12:47 PM

Last nights Heat game was a lot of fun to watch, they played a fast forechecking game that the Marlies had no answer for. Phillips, Ruzicka, Zary, Zav, Pettersen, Mackey, Gawdin all looked good.

KootenayFlamesFan · 03-06-2021, 01:24 PM

Just saw Zary scored today, anyone see the goal?

Glad the kid is racking up some points, he could have a monster season when the WHL starts up again.

Hockey-and_stuff · 03-06-2021, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Just saw Zary scored today, anyone see the goal?

Glad the kid is racking up some points, he could have a monster season when the WHL starts up again.

Scorps Twitter has a video of the goal.

Having watched it a few times I still have no idea how it went in though.

TheScorpion · 03-06-2021, 01:27 PM

Heat today:

Zary - Ruzicka - Phillips
Kirkland - Gawdin - Philp
Pettersen - Pospisil - Zavgorodniy
Gallant - Estephan - Tuulola

Mackey - Petrovic
Poolman - Yelesin
Lerby - Leslie

Sparks
Lavigne

1-1 midway through the first... here's Zary's goal. It was a flukey one LOL

https://twitter.com/user/status/1368295264130232320

And here's Rourke Chartier's game-tying tally

https://twitter.com/user/status/1368296889074913280

TheScorpion · 03-06-2021, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

Scorps Twitter has a video of the goal.

Having watched it a few times I still have no idea how it went in though.

Looked to me like he tried to fire a pass out into the slot but it bounced off a Marlie stick/skate, went high up into the air, and bounced in off D'Agostini's back

TheScorpion · 03-06-2021, 01:36 PM

https://twitter.com/user/status/1368298859437322240

Calgary4LIfe · 03-06-2021, 02:04 PM

Josh Leivo's career high is 10 goals and 19 points. That came with a career high 49 games played. He has been unlucky in getting injured in his career, but he has also found himself to be a frequent healthy scratch.

You have to irrationally hate him not to see the puck skills he has, and the goal he scored the other night (his first of the season) was definitely a high-skill shot. However, his stats, production, defensive acumen, and ability to sustain any type of offensive pressure tell me that he is himself just a tweener. He is also 27 years old as well.

I have no doubt that replacing Leivo with Phillips is a relatively safe move. I don't see Leivo making any fantastic defensive plays that the Flames would miss if the switch was made. I think he started off terribly, but he has looked much better for the last 10 games - but was only finally rewarded, in a blowout game against a team that was playing terrible defence. It was a great shot, but I think part of the problem with Leivo is that it takes him too long to get a great shot off.

I would replace Leivo with Phillips and not bat an eye about it. Gaudreau - Monahan - Phillips might be a fun line to watch. As has been posted, Phillips has done better than Yamamoto in their respective years and levels.

Aside from that, I have also felt that teams should be rewarding prospects with cups of coffee during the season, as I think it both helps to reward their solid play, providing more incentive for the other players on the farm, and is a good way to slowly acclimate them into the NHL.

The only single negative I can think of is that there is an expansion draft coming up. Yes, it is great to have so many 'good problems' when it comes to that, but wouldn't it suck to answer Seattle's question if this little guy is NHL-capable? That's a consideration at any rate.

As for Sutter and his 'Sutter-type' of player, sure, Phillips isn't a big player, but how important is that? I rank these attributes in order from most important to least important from my personal viewpoint about what Sutter likes and doesn't like in players:

1) Willingness to compete (sounds like Phillips meets this criteria)
2) Skilled - of course Sutter values this. I think Phillips qualifies. LoL

3) "Coachable" - have no idea if Phillips meets this or not.
4) Size - Hey, size is always going to be important.
5) Speed - definitely qualifies here.

Phillips sure sounds like the only knock against him is size. Does Sutter prefer if you are 6'5" and 230lbs, full of the other attributes as well? Of course he does, as does every other single coach in the history of the NHL without exception.

Can this 4'6" player (exaggerating here - haven't looked up his height, but guessing he was 5'7" or something) be a 'Sutter player'? Absolutely. If he is willing to bust his butt every shift, not cheat on the ice for offence, commit to the structure and game-plan that Sutter lays out, and help the Flames win, then Sutter will love him.

Sutter has traded for diminutive players in the past - one that springs to mind is Bryan Cameron who never played for the Flames, but Sutter acquired him as a GM to fill-out the Abbotsford Heat back in the day, with the thought that this kid might end up being an NHL'er. Nigel Dawes was acquired by Sutter as well (5'8", though stocky).

Phillips just needs to continue doing what he is doing - producing and supporting the Heat winning games. Everyone in the organization will notice. Darryl and Maclean (I assume he is still the Heat's coach) will probably have numerous conversations over the course of the season. Treliving has to keep an eye on that team, as does Pascal (I believe it is still him anyway). If Phillips continues doing well, he will bust down whatever door is in his way and get a shot, and it will be up to him if he ends up making it or not. There are other ways to be 'tough to play against' - and one of those ways is just to be hard on pucks, hard on the forecheck, hard on the backcheck - the rest of it will happen for him as he is unquestionably skilled enough.

As long as he competes hard and helps the Flames win over someone else, Sutter will love him, all 3'9" of him.

TheScorpion · 03-06-2021, 02:09 PM

Emiliooooooooo! 2-1 Heat

TheScorpion · 03-06-2021, 02:12 PM

https://twitter.com/user/status/1368308264656539648

EVERLAST · 03-06-2021, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

https://twitter.com/user/status/1368308264656539648

Wow....shot.out of a cannon. Poise and confidence all.over that goal.

SeanCharles · 03-06-2021, 02:23 PM

How has Lerby looked?

I feel like him and Mackey are the only ones that have a real chance at being full-time NHLers out of the dmen in Stockton.

Unless I’m wrong about Poolman and Yelesin..

Cali Panthers Fan · 03-06-2021, 02:24 PM

I think Poolman has a real chance. Might be a few years of seasoning, but he could be a bottom pairing d-man if given some development time.

TheScorpion · 03-06-2021, 02:31 PM

I really love watching Lerby play... for my money he's been Stockton's most consistently impressive D this year.

He moves his feet and the puck really well. I wish they would give him a bigger role at 5v5 but he's been used consistently on the PP.

TheScorpion · 03-06-2021, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I think Poolman has a real chance. Might be a few years of seasoning, but he could be a bottom pairing d-man if given some development time.

I don't disagree that he could be an NHLer but he shouldn't need years of seasoning. He's 26 in December.